ATSF-Talk

Text: Thomas Raukamp
English translation: Dan de Hulster

The road to new software?
Atari/TOS Software Foundation intends to secure the continuity of Atari software. The idea could be unique in today's computer world: users get the chance to support their platform directly. Thomas Raukamp interviewed the ATSF and xTOS founder, Ulrich Gössel about the goals of the organisation.

Thomas: Ulrich, for a long time there have been complaints about the lack of new software for the Atari platform. In spite of that nothing much has happened. Now with this ATSF (Atari/TOS Software Foundation) you propose a new concept for the maintenance and futher development of Atari software. Please tell us in your own words exactly what the ATSF is...

Ulrich: The ATSF is a software initiative, founded on the engagement of Atari fans and its goal is to revive the software market. It is financed by the members and it collects money which is used for new software projects. In other words, together we put money in a big jar and out comes software. Because the ATSF is commercially oriented, it goes one step further: the new ATSF software isn't for the sole benefit of ATSF members, but can be purchased by everyone and even be distributed as freeware in some cases. The profits made from the sale of the software flow into the big ATSF jar again and will be used for other projects.

Thomas: What motivated you to start the ATSF?

Ulrich: Three reasons: first of all, the lack of modern and powerful software in important fields, like a web browser which is up to modern standards, an up-to-date MIDI sequencer, a modern powerful all-round graphic program and of technical and business software, I could add many other things to this list. Secondly there is an abundance of existing and available, but not maintained software (because the authors have stopped development), software which would be worth reviving, but is leading a sleeping existence.

In many cases it wouldn't make sense to re-invent the wheel by writing a program from sratch if a similar program already exists. There is a huge amount of old software that would render great service after modernization. The third reason is that in the TOS market it is impossible to stimulate software development that caters for the demand of the users, for example there might be three programmers simultaneously working on three different Atari news readers for which there is no demand, while on the other hand Atari users are in great need of a modern web browser!

The ATSF wants to change this absurd situation of software being made for which there is no demand, and users depending on the hope that some developers might choose a certain software theme. The ATSF wants to give some guidance to software development, based on the needs and wishes of users.

Thomas: Is the ATSF a foundation in the legal sense of the word ?

Ulrich: No, from the jurist point of view a foundation is difficult to realize and it requires a capital from the start that will be used for a certain purpose. The ATSF doesn't have a start capital, but collects it over a period of time and will then use it for a certain purpose. It is in that way a quasi-foundition, or to say it in a better way: a commercial software initiative with the character of a foundation. Legally the ATSF is a special sort of company which requires little start capital and little effort, and is at the same time very flexible and allows freedom to act.

Thomas: Who can become member of the ATSF ?

Ulrich: Everyone who wants to support the Atari/TOS market, everyone who wishes that our market will get new and powerful software, everyone who wants certain existing software to be revived and other new software to be created. In short, everyone who wants to contribute personally to keep TOS systems alive.

Thomas: Are full up-front contributions welcome or should there be regular contributions?

Ulrich: Yes and yes. When you become an ATSF member, you will get a one year membership. The contributions for that year can be paid monthly, quarterly or annually as desired. Because members prefer different terms, regularity is secured already. Of course we would also welcome up-front contributions as long as they conform to the membership contributions or beyond. You could for example pay a single sum for the duration of three years. We can offer custom solutions.

Thomas: What do users get for their investment?

Ulrich: They can expect within a certain period of time (new) software that doesn't exist any more or is hardly available on the Atari/TOS market. An ATSF member has the advantage of discount on the price of ATSF software over the non-member. The discount percentage depends on the type of membership you choose and is valid over the entire period of membership and has no restrictions on the number of programs you buy. Because we also intend to put smaller tools and applications as freeware at the disposal of members, the benefits of the invested money become clear.

Thomas: How is the acceptance of the Atari users?

Ulrich: Good. The amount of members so far will allow us to take the first steps soon. The speed at which different software projects can be initiated simultaneously will grow with the amount of members.

Thomas: How will it be decided which projects will be supported and which ones will be started, is there a form of democracy among the members or should this be decided from the "top"?

Ulrich: Nothing from the top! Even the ATSF terms and conditions were formed with the help of suggestions given by several users. As we launched the idea of starting the ATSF a few months ago, we got real good advice from many, which we have used immediately. Concerning the real decisions, we should not forget that this is a unique project, it has never been done before, and therefore we have no opportunity to compare it to anything else. Neither have we gained any experience. Hence it is impossible to predict any future scenarios. But when for example we have the chance to purchase two graphic programs for the ATSF, the majority of ATSF members will decide which ones. Concerning a browser, it wouldn't be neccesary to vote whether or not to adpot this type of program, because we are in desperate need of one. Should three independent browser developpers contact us and ask to be helped by us, then the majority of ATSF members decide. And for all bigger projects we will start polls on www.xtos.de to canvass the wishes of users. The democratic structure of the ATSF will play a major role.

Thomas: What is most important now? The re-development of existing software or development of new software?

Ulrich: We want to focus on both. It also depends on whether existing software can be purchased and made available for futher development. In the case of Cubase, for example, it would be impossible to obtain the source code, because Steinberg is not interested as far as we know and the price would be too high anyway. Then there are also cases in which a program is made in such an individual, peculiar way, that futher development is technically too complicated and it would make more sense to start a new program. On the other hand, for example in the graphic program field, there are existing programs which have very extended capabilities already and only need minor adaptations. These sort of programs are therefore promising candidates for futher development.

Thomas: What conditions should a program satisfy to be a candidate for ATSF? It would be useless to adopt a program like Signum! even if it was very popular. It doesn't comply to GEM conventions. It's the same with sequencer software...

Ulrich: And let's not forget that the GEM conventions are not carved in stone and can't be optimized any more - but let's not consider that now. An existing program would be purchased if it meets the obvious needs of users and is popular. This has priority. The question of its GEM conformity would be secondary. If, for example, we had the chance to get the Cubase sources, many would cry out for joy. Then hardly anyone would worry if GEM conventions are followed! As long as this causes no technical problems, a program can have a totally atypical environment and operate in a totally different way.

A new software project would be supported if it clearly meets a demand from users. A little example: if a developer writes a program which calculates the amount of wear a jogging shoe sustains during the period of half a year, we could not support it unfortunately. On the other hand someone developing a new sequencer which includes all the neccesary standards could count on our support. This is maybe an extreme example, but it makes clear what counts at the ATSF.

Thomas: I suppose private developers as well as developer groups are required? It wouldn't make much sense to offer money to ASH so that company can carry on the development of CAB...

Ulrich: No, that would be sensless and would cost more money than it would bring effective results. You are right, private developers are needed, but not exclusively. If neccesary, it is very well possible that for future projects in specific cases, we will ask professional developers or companies. But at this moment that is "music of the future".

Thomas: Will you actively contact developers or should the developers approach you ?

Ulrich: No fixed rules for that. Actually we contact developers but we would be very pleased if someone came to us showing interest to write software for the ATSF.

Thomas: Do you intend to buy source code so other developers can take care of them ?

Ulrich: Yes. This possibility is already mentioned in the ATSF terms and conditions and is part of the ATSF concept. Many source codes are still lying in drawers and cupboards because the owners don't want to just give away for nothing the work of (possibly) several years. Because they don't program for the Atari market any more for obvious reasons, many good projects are simply lying idle. What a waste! We would also be very happy if a still-active developer shows interest in modernizing an old program. So if we announce in the future that we have purchased a certain source code, we would welcome interested developers who want to take care of that program.

Thomas: Good documentation must be neccesary, so the new developers can get an insight into the program...

Ulrich: Certainly, that plays an important role. There must be a lot of old source code which is difficult to understand because of insufficient documentation and structure. But in this case we could, before buying it, give advice about parts of the source code and then make a decision about the meaning and feasibility of futher development. Also we can say, "We will only buy the software if it is properly documented" but this would lose its meaning if we come in the happy circumstance to be able to buy the source code of a popular program at a favorable price. Let's wait and see...

Thomas: Can you give us the names of a few candidates or personal suggestions for existing programs that have a good chance to be purchased?

Ulrich: I wouldn't like to answer this question yet, because on www.xtos.de we will soon start the first polls about the specific software categories. But concerning the graphic program category, I am personally very delighted about the idea to build a big "super program" from different existing classic Atari graphic programms. A modular program construction would make this possible and add many refined extras. Names can't and won't be given yet.

Thomas: Are there already contacts with current or former Atari developers?

Ulrich: Yes, sure. Since www.xtos.de came into existence, we have made contact with many developers worldwide. And since the idea for xTOS emerged we have contacted former TOS programmers to find out who owns the software rights or to find out if they might be interested in selling software. We have no complaint about lack of contacts!

Thomas: Let's talk about development of new software. Let's presume I am a programmer who has an interesting idea. I want to be asked by the ATSF to work for it. How to proceed?

Ulrich: Very simple, write an e-mail or letter to us in which you present your project in detail. If it is interesting enough and fulfills a demand/need from users, you then have a good chance to be asked. In case of doubt the members of the ATSF or internal polls decide.

Thomas: Which fields of programming have priority to be considered?

Ulrich: I want to emphasize strongly that no field should be excluded. It only makes no sense and we cannot cope with everything at once. Therefore we want to tackle bit by bit each category and take care of new software. First the categories of graphics and internet will be tackled. We plan to then devote ourselves to the fields of music, video, office, OS, games, drivers, business and technical computing. This order is flexible though, and it will depend on several factors.

Thomas: Again the question of guidelines and directives arises. A specific standard should be maintained, for example GEM conformity, BubbleGEM... Are you planning to make "Style guides" to which developers should adhere?

Ulrich: In principle we will, during the conception and modernizing of software, follow the GEM standards. There could be exceptions, as I pointed out before. To introduce "Style guides" is in principle a good idea, even if the ATSF was not founded to postulate new directives. But there would be a possibility to grant software made via us with a certain "ATSF quality stamp" which stands for stability of the application and the conformity to certain directives. That would surely be an extra bonus for all buyers of ATSF software.

Thomas: In this respect, is there a co-operation with the TOSgroup?

Ulrich: For this it is still too early, we started our activities only a few weeks ago. First thing to do is to purchase source codes and to start activating new projects. As the question of the real programming and adaptation starts, we will certainly go and see what new or optimized standards the TOSgroup has produced.

Thomas: Ulrich, why is the Atari market in your opinion still interesting for developers? You can't make much money here any more for sure...

Ulrich: I think that a big amount of idealism, conviction and individuality is needed to be active in the Atari market. Conviction to do something for a computer system that is too valuable to disappear just like that. The idealism of many developpers as well as that of users comes possibly also from the fact that they want to keep alive an alternative to the almighty Microsoft world monopoly. I had several talks recently with former Atari developers who miss very much programming the Atari system for technical reasons. They now program for the PC, but are not in any way happy about it. When you hear such opinions from many different developers, you start thinking...

Thomas: How about the distribution of finished products (software written for/bought by the ATSF)? Will the still active Atari shops do that or will the ATSF take care of the distribution? It will be difficult to promise a ATSF member a bonus if the ATSF will not distribute the product. On the other hand a product would be uninteresting for the shops if distribution would take place mainly via the ATSF.

Ulrich: An important principle of the ATSF is independance from existing distributors and companies. You can't expect from them anymore serious or commercial interest for the TOS market. For this reason there will be an own ATSF distribution, which will be devoted exclusively and consequently to our platform. There is no more question of "business" for our platform, the distributors had to switch to other products and at present they distribute hardware and software for other operating systems.

Thomas: When will the first plans be presented to the ATSF members?

Ulrich: Soon we will start the first polls on www.xtos.de which will make the plans concrete. The polls are meant for all users, not only ATSF members. As soon as the polls are analyzed and it is clear which software can be purchased and which software is demanded, the work will start. At the beginning of the summer the first projects should be started, taking into account that initial contacts have been made already.

Thomas: Ulrich, how did you become an Atarian? Tell me your personal "Atari-story".

Ulrich: My first contact with Atari was in the mid-eighties, when friends of mine sat behind their 1040s for hours and played every game they could lay their hands on. In those days the expression, "Atari junkie" was common. Around 1990 I started my first sequencing experiments with a 1040STE. Later I got a Mega ST on which I made music for many years, nearly exclusively music. Later, during my personal Falcon era I started using the computer for other purposes... Then came the first Atari clones. One of them is still used for almost all important matters.

Thomas: How do you judge the progress of the xTOS project at the moment?

Ulrich: Good things need time to mature. From the outsider's viewpoint quite a long period of time has elapsed since the first announcements of the project. Now a team of competent developers is working on the project and its realization is nearer and nearer. Now if, with a new machine, we get an optimized OS, a resurgence of new software and a stabilization of the market, we will be as happy as can be, very satisfied.

Thomas: What are your dreams which you want to see fulfilled by the xTOS and ATSF projects?

Ulrich: Generally I wish for our platform to get out of the shadow of its former existence it has been in during the past few years, and reach a higher position. Personally I want to work on a modern TOS computer without limitations in all respects compared to other platforms. If I could download a movie via DSL while recording an audio file and writing a letter, then this goal is achieved. This sounds a little utopian, but it can be realized.

Thomas: Ulrich, thanks for this interview.

Ulrich: You are welcome!

Useful links st-computer www.st-computer.net TOSgroup.org http://tosgroup.org xTOS Systems www.xtos.de

MyAtari magazine - Feature #4, August 2002