PC mouse refresh rate

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sandord
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PC mouse refresh rate

Post by sandord » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:38 am

I remember being kind of obsessed about this a long time ago but today I realised again that my PC's mouse refresh rate is lower than that of the ST. Everytime I grab the ST mouse, I'm blown away by the smooth pointer movement.

Why is this still not fixed in 2018?

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Re: PC mouse refresh rate

Post by exxos » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:44 am

what do you mean by refresh rate exactly ? Refresh normally monitor term... I never heard of issues on PC with mice... only time you get "jerky" mice on PC is when machine isn't fast enough to run all software... I get jerky mouse when autorouting boards because CPU is maxed out 100%.
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Re: PC mouse refresh rate

Post by sandord » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:49 am

exxos wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:44 am
what do you mean by refresh rate exactly ? Refresh normally monitor term... I never heard of issues on PC with mice... only time you get "jerky" mice on PC is when machine isn't fast enough to run all software... I get jerky mouse when autorouting boards because CPU is maxed out 100%.
I mean simply draw the pointer every frame the video chip is sending to the display and have the pointer location be up to date as well.

I have never seen a PC draw exactly 60 (or whatever the refresh rate is) mouse pointers per second.

I know I'm quite sensitive to these things though, many people don't notice these subtleties. It's the same with modern LED lights, I can see them strobe (especially with car tail lights). When I tell this to someone, they say they never noticed it or even can't see the effect at all.

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Re: PC mouse refresh rate

Post by exxos » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:00 am

How can you tell though ? If you move the mouse fast enough to get 1 frame change , the mouse is moving to fast to see it anyway ?

My eyes are sensitive to flicker, 50hz TVs was pretty hell for me :( 100hz TVs was a lot better butI could still see the flicker a little bit... thank god for LCD's these days... new problem with those is refresh / response times. stuff ends up blurry when moving fast on slow response time monitors.
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Re: PC mouse refresh rate

Post by sandord » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:05 am

exxos wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:00 am
How can you tell though ? If you move the mouse fast enough to get 1 frame change , the mouse is moving to fast to see it anyway ?

My eyes are sensitive to flicker, 50hz TVs was pretty hell for me :( 100hz TVs was a lot better butI could still see the flicker a little bit... thank god for LCD's these days... new problem with those is refresh / response times. stuff ends up blurry when moving fast on slow response time monitors.
It might have something to do with LCD, which tends to give a blurry appearance when displaying animations. That's the exact reason why almost every modern LCD TV has a frame creation algorithm built in.

I'm mentioning this because my ST is connected to an SC1224 CRT.

I think I could try to hook up the ST to an LCD monitor and see how that goes...

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Re: PC mouse refresh rate

Post by sandord » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:48 am

sandord wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:05 am
It might have something to do with LCD, which tends to give a blurry appearance when displaying animations. That's the exact reason why almost every modern LCD TV has a frame creation algorithm built in.
While thinking about this a bit more, I think it's definately the motion blur of LCD's that's causing it.

Here's some interesting background info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_motion_blur


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Re: PC mouse refresh rate

Post by exxos » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:55 am

sandord wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:48 am
While thinking about this a bit more, I think it's definately the motion blur of LCD's that's causing it.
Yeah , know all about it ;)

I have a aoc i2353 monitor, Response time 5ms... I wouldn't go with anything higher... my old monitor was 20ms I think.. it was terrible..
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Re: PC mouse refresh rate

Post by sandord » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:06 pm

exxos wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:55 am
Yeah , know all about it ;)

I have a aoc i2353 monitor, Response time 5ms... I wouldn't go with anything higher... my old monitor was 20ms I think.. it was terrible..
It's about much more than just the response rate. This jawdropping article has all in it: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previo ... 2(v=vs.85)

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Re: PC mouse refresh rate

Post by Steve » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:07 pm

Guys,

This is where retro-knowledge doesn't help so much! But I am also a modern 'gamer' lol :P

Yes it is the LCD 60hz that is causing your issue, even though 60fps might sound smooth your desktop most likely doesn't have v-sync enabled which causes a jittery mouse movement (which is the same for 99.9% of 'standard' pc configurations)

This is because in the transition between CRT monitors and LCD monitors in the last 10 years, LCD has been drastically worse than CRT when it comes to fresh rate and response time. For instance in 2002 I was using a CRT at 120hz for silky smooth games but in 2006 I had 'downgraded' to LCD 60hz without realising the impact of Hz. Now in 2018 I have 120/144+ Hz LCD monitors MINIMUM.

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Re: PC mouse refresh rate

Post by sandord » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:07 pm

This image (from the article linked above) basically sums it all up:

dn642112.ic458338(en-us,vs.85).gif
dn642112.ic458338(en-us,vs.85).gif (3.93 KiB) Viewed 63 times

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