Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

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mfro
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by mfro » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:24 pm

There is some code here: https://github.com/nonarkitten/pseudo-jit (the emulator core that - at least at a glance - appears to make sense) and also some schematics that show how the ARM SOC's I/O pins are connected to the m68k bus.

I didn't find any code that would glue these together (i.e. drive the I/Os), however.

If that's really all there is, I would agree it's in a *very* early stage.

As some of the protagonists appeared elsewhere as die-hard Vampire/Apollo haters already if I remember right, it's also not too far off to presume we just observe the beginning of a war with vaporware for colateral damage (although I'm not really competent/familiar enough with the Amiga scene to judge on that).
And remember: Beethoven wrote his first symphony in C.

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mrbombermillzy
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by mrbombermillzy » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:36 pm

mfro wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:24 pm
There is some code here: https://github.com/nonarkitten/pseudo-jit (the emulator core that - at least at a glance - appears to make sense) and also some schematics that show how the ARM SOC's I/O pins are connected to the m68k bus.

I didn't find any code that would glue these together (i.e. drive the I/Os), however.

If that's really all there is, I would agree it's in a *very* early stage.

As some of the protagonists appeared elsewhere as die-hard Vampire/Apollo haters already if I remember right, it's also not too far off to presume we just observe the beginning of a war with vaporware for colateral damage (although I'm not really competent/familiar enough with the Amiga scene to judge on that).
Yeah, from lurking around the Apollo forums and elsewhere, I gleaned that this was some sort of revenge from a miffed ex-member of the team, who *allegedly* isnt able to pull this off.

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exxos
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by exxos » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:09 pm

mrbombermillzy wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:36 pm
Yeah, from lurking around the Apollo forums and elsewhere, I gleaned that this was some sort of revenge from a miffed ex-member of the team, who *allegedly* isnt able to pull this off.
Like I said, look up the cost of 8 layer pcbs... or the cost of the parts alone.. He seems to be guessing at stuff IMO. Advertising stuff as a render is what I do sometimes, but I show actual PCBs not longer after.
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go0se
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by go0se » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:02 am

@exxos Where are you getting these astronomical quotes for 8 layer PCBs? A 68000 DIP footprint is only 82mm X 26mm approx.

8 layer boards are expensive if you only order minimum quantity i.e. 5 pcs but you can order 50 pcs 82X26 PCBs in 8 layer ENIG finish from PCBWay for £280 delivered. With added duty and taxes that is still going to work out less than £7 each for the bare PCB. It's an economy of scale.

They're not going to be ordering 5 at a time in the production phase. Even if you add the high cost of the OSD335x + BGA assembly the numbers still seem realistic.

I have no idea if the project is vapourware or not but as far as I can see, no one is being asked put money down to pre-order anything that doesn't yet exist, so until that happens, good luck to them.

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TheNameOfTheGame
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by TheNameOfTheGame » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:22 am

On their discord channel, they are saying the quoted price is confirmed and beta boards are going to be made.

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TheNameOfTheGame
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by TheNameOfTheGame » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:46 am

I'm sending the Buffee team one of my (many lol) spare ST machines so they have one for a testbed as currently they are in need of one.

I am going to include Gembench and Sysinfo on floppy for their testing.

Is there any other software I should think to include considering the application?

cmorley
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by cmorley » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:20 am

go0se wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:02 am
8 layer boards are expensive if you only order minimum quantity i.e. 5 pcs but you can order 50 pcs 82X26 PCBs in 8 layer ENIG finish from PCBWay for £280 delivered. With added duty and taxes that is still going to work out less than £7 each for the bare PCB. It's an economy of scale.
I don't know what options you selected but you are way off with PCBWay prices for this kind of density. Not to mention every time I have sent in a for a quote from PCBWay for something more complicated than 2-layer 100x100 the price which comes back is a lot higher than the autoquote price.

For 50 off, 4/4mil, via in pad, 8-layer, ENIG the autoquote give me $653
For assembly of those 50 (buyer supplies parts) $994

That's $33/board PCB & assembly if the yield is 100%.

Guessing $50 for the non-PCB BOM and you're ballpark $200 retail price.

go0se
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by go0se » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:26 am

@cmorley The issue there is that the specs you've quoted are not the specs that they are using.

Generate the Gerbers from the lower layer count WIP board that they have already published here and up the layer count to 8 on PCBWay to account for the additional GND layers they mention.

https://easyeda.com/editor#id=a94e1002e ... 79992543bf

They use 5mil signal traces throughout and there is no sign of your via in pad requirement, nor would that be necessary. Dog-bone is perfectly adequate to escape a 1.27mm pitch BGA256 on an 8 layer board. They are interfacing a DIP64 to a BGA256 using some level shifters at the end of the day, this isn't some Area51 style tech in 2021.

I'm also not sure where you got your $994 assembly cost for 50 pcs? It comes out at nowhere near that for me no matter what I plug in.

Your $50 BOM estimate does sound conservative but even using all your numbers, $83 for something to you need to solder two rows of pin headers onto doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility. Let's add $17 for packaging and sundries to give a nice round $100 cost and a sale price of $140.

Perhaps these guys aren't quite as profit focused as some.

Again, I don't know if this project will ever see the light of day, and I admit, it does have a slight whiff about it but everyone jumping on it and calling BS at this early stage seems very harsh for something that would be great if it ever does get delivered.

mfro
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by mfro » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:27 am

At least their discord channel lets one assume there is more than just vapour.

They promise their software will be open source, so that's a clear plus.
And remember: Beethoven wrote his first symphony in C.

cmorley
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Re: Buffee the Vampire Slayer...

Post by cmorley » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:27 am

go0se wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:26 am
I'm also not sure where you got your $994 assembly cost for 50 pcs? It comes out at nowhere near that for me no matter what I plug in.
Oh I misread SMD parts for SMD pads which is a assembly quote requirement for my normal board house... so I put 500 parts on there.

TBH I didn't look at the board... 4/4 or 5/5 doesn't make a difference because they've used 0.2mm holes. I assumed the BGA would be a finer pitch. Hence via in pad guess.

I'm not calling the project BS. I just agree with exxos that the prices seem optimistically low.

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