Why I don't sell on ebay...

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exxos
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Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by exxos » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:03 pm

Old article now, but tells the tip of how things were back then for me. It's only getting worse and that article was published in 2013.

http://whyebaysucks.info/ebay-mission-i ... ror-story/

And why I don't like paypal either...

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=30287

.. and how ebay put me out of business..3 times now!

Of course back in the day I was setting up my own electronics company. I was like a "mini-maplin" online in the day. I offered PCB services, design, production etc. Sold components. I was a distributor for Cebek, Leaper, plus others. I had customers I made PCB's for, such as telecommunications companies. I designed full products for people. It was a HUGE undertaking to setup my website and build relations with suppliers and build up my customer base. I did all this as around the time the company I worked for shut down as I was out of work. Things were really starting to take off after 2 years of solid work...Then it all came crashing down.

The problem was eBay happened. Anyone looking for electronic parts or services stopped using search engines finding my store. They were all flooding in droves over to the new eBay site. It took me awhile to realise, but basically this was the point all my hard work went out of the window and put me out of business as eBay came along. There was so much competition which appeared almost overnight it was just insane.

After a while I decided to sell on eBay myself. I had epic loads of electronics items which I had collected over the years and had nowhere to sell them other than eBay. So of course I did exactly that. I just sold a few items here and there initially to try out the system and it worked very well. My business grew and I had finally got back to the point where I was a couple years previously with my web shop. Though as the article states above, just when I started to really do well, it all came crashing down due to the amount of scams and the lack of support from eBay. Ultimately I could not survive all the abuse and lies. EBay punish me for this and basically shut me down and put me out of business for a second time.

The amount of stress it caused myself and my family, it all made us extremely ill. One day I said to my girlfriend that I am not doing this anymore it is pointless. So in a mad attempt, I sold as much stuff as I could just to get rid of the stock. This turned out to be a very good decision as I would later be suspended from eBay anyway. I lost a lot of money over this. Though at least it was "done" and I wouldn't be stuck with piles of stock which I couldn't sell anymore.

Of course enter more the Atari years where people will know I set up my Atari shop originally with PayPal. Of course PayPal somehow came to the conclusion I was selling illegal hacks like sold for play stations for people to be able to play copied games. Of course any person here knows I am not doing this and I doubt it was even done on the ST. Pretty sure CD copyright protection didn't exist back then. Even so PayPal shook me down and after a long drawnout argument with them they just would not reinstate my account. Of course this is explained a lot more in-depth on the links at the top of this post. So basically again, I was put out of business for the now third time. All thanks to eBay, or as it is again now separate, PayPal. So now I avoid both like the plague.

I was still buying odd items on eBay until about a week ago. It was a few things, only really packing boxes, bubble wrap and that sort of thing. There were a lot of sellers which only allow items to be purchased by people who have a PayPal account. Which I obviously do not have any more. I did set up a new PayPal account where the first payment I took for a purchase was done as a gift payment, PayPal soon punished me for this and put a black mark against my account. As to why other people can accept massive payments as gifts and not get punished for this, and yet I do, is beyond me. In any case, I just close that account and just used eBay to check out as a guest. Though is greatly limited what I could buy.

Though in trying to buy items the seller on eBay this past week, I wanted to buy items in bulk and wanted to know shipping costs. Enquiring about things eBay did not like. EBay do not allow sharing of contact information, which I had to do to the seller so we could work out postage costs. So I got suspended from eBay for doing that. EBay also do not allow sharing of any sort of information or any sort of hint about doing the transaction outside of eBay. Though this for me is impossible in a lot of cases as I cannot use eBay because I am banned from PayPal.

Buyers should have the right to use another payment system if they choose. But obviously this isn't allowed is quite frankly stupid in my opinion. Of course if I had a PayPal account, I wouldn't have to go to such extremes to try make purchases in the first place. So eBay and PayPal cause all these problems and I try and work around them which just lands me in even more trouble. So then your only option is just do not use eBay or PayPal at all period. I only wanted to buy a few bits and bobs and it turns into a all out war with ebay. What's the point ? Common theme of ebay driving people away. Not just the sellers, but the buyers now as well.

I was just using eBay as a convenience like others do. Though I do buy a fair amount of packing materials and such for my web store. But I am just not going to bother anymore. I will spend as much time is needed in finding online web shops which are nothing to do with eBay and nothing to do with PayPal. I'll take my custom elsewhere. Of course ultimately this also punishes the sellers as they have lost a customer. If sellers want to survive, they are going to have to have webshops outside of ebay and paypal. I would gladly use any seller I have been buying from again if they had a webshop outside of ebay. Though most of them don't!

In a way this is starting to turn out a good thing for me. As I was buying my antistatic foam from a seller on eBay. I was spending around £30 a small box for this stuff. Though I have now found that I can buy this at a fraction of the price elsewhere. I will also be trying find other sources for bubblewrap and other items, I actually go through massive amounts of the stuff and cardboard boxes. I started using a company in the UK called the tiny box company.. They seem to have reasonable prices for boxes that I have seen so far, I think they do also sell bubble wrap and other things well.. I will check out their prices and may buy direct from them in the future. Just cut out ebay and paypal all together!

The main problem really is that my PCB guy which I use for production runs, I have used him for years, prices are reasonable, but not the cheapest. But he always checks my designs and offers solutions if they can be made cheaper. But more than anything he always does quality boards and uses proper spec PCBs. While I could get PCBs made cheaper, the copper tends to come off them extremely easily which makes them pretty useless soldering SMT parts. As if you do not get it right exactly 1st time, the copper will simply fall off the PCB making the board useless. So currently all my boards are done with proper quality materials. As if for some reason apart needed to be changed on any of my boards, I do not want my customers to end up with PCB tracks being ripped off. Of course this can still happen anyway, but it will almost be guaranteed to happen with cheaper boards.. Though he has helped me source parts and is very good with support, which is a must for me.

But back to the point.. He only accepts PayPal :roll: I can only send him the money as a guest. Which works in most cases, but if I try and do high cost transaction, PayPal do not allow it with a guest account. But also PayPal always forced me to the screen to sign up with PayPal. I actually have to hack the webpage to get the guest checkout option to appear so I can pay with my credit card. This basically takes me some time messing about pages and messing about just to send the payment over. Of course I really do not want to stop using the guy as the has been extremely helpful and I have spent a small fortune with him over the years. Though I suspect PayPal are trying very hard to remove the guest checkout options as I mostly have to hack the page to get them to appear again. So it leaves me with a bit of a problem the future in respect to how and where I purchase my circuit boards from. I also can't help but feel paypal are again cutting their own throats as a lot of people like me can only pay with guest checkout. So once they remove that, thats gotta hurt their profits overnight!

But overall, the amount of BS I have had to endure from eBay and PayPal over the years, and still do is just insane! All I am doing is trying to supply a very small community with upgrades and repairs and yet I'm having to fight eBay and PayPal every single step of the way to do this. I had enough of all this several years ago and its only getting worse. So people need to start saying goodbye to ebay and paypal and look elsewhere. There are better deals for items out there and ebay isn't one of them anymore, at least not for me.

So I may be quiet from forum posts now and then over the next weeks, basically because my workload has increased while trying find alternative sources for everything I have been buying off eBay. Of course eBay will lose out on the sale, and again the innocent seller also falls victim to all this. But I think enough is enough with all this now. I think I will work towards not using PayPal at all for any transactions over the coming months. Of course they will not lose any sleep over losing my business. But I'm tired of having to fight for hours at a time just to buy basic stuff from eBay or pay for something with PayPal. It would just be pure madness to keep trying to give my custom to ebay and paypal who don't give a stuff about you. The system is just total joke and a nightmare to deal with.

I really do suggest people start finding alternative payment systems outside PayPal and I seriously suggest avoiding eBay. There are deals elsewhere if you look and likely better ones. It is just time to move on away from these diabolical systems with zero customer support. Go and find sellers who work outside the terrible ebay and paypal world!
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Re: Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by DrF » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:57 pm

It's not just him either eBay have put me out of business a few times, 1 time PayPal even held £14K of mine and told me to get bent basically that was the worst.

Only decent thing to come out of eBay is Exxos it's how we fell in love :lol:

I run the Why Ebay Sucks site which has somehow survived to this day (I think we are in year 3 or 4 now lol), and I get loads of stories like this left in the comments from users all over the world. The fact the sites traffic never seems to go down always going up is probably a good indicator that something's wrong, if my little blog can see it, the problem must be huge.

The same complaints over and over again and nothings changed. eBay and PayPal have become monsters ruling the market so they don't care who they trample on, they know full well for every 1 seller they dump there's another 10 waiting.

I used to go to a post office daily that had 4 or 5 semi successful ebay sellers I would say from the amount of posting they was doing.
I used to say "it's not if eBay will f*ck you, its when" to them, they used to laugh... fast forward 2 years later they all out of business and said I was right each one got stuffed by eBay in some way or another to put them out of business.

My advice to people who really want to use eBay or have no choice go read a guide on a getting a iffy account and use that, it's going to be the only thing that will save you in the end.

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Re: Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by exxos » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:28 pm

DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:57 pm
It's not just him either eBay have put me out of business a few times, 1 time PayPal even held £14K of mine and told me to get bent basically that was the worst.
Oh wow, I thought my £600 or so was bad!
DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:57 pm
Only decent thing to come out of eBay is Exxos it's how we fell in love :lol:
:chairsmack:
DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:57 pm
I run the Why Ebay Sucks site which has somehow survived to this day (I think we are in year 3 or 4 now lol), and I get loads of stories like this left in the comments from users all over the world. The fact the sites traffic never seems to go down always going up is probably a good indicator that something's wrong, if my little blog can see it, the problem must be huge.
I'm surprised ebay hasn't tried shutting you down yet.. They sure do not like anything bad said against them.
DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:57 pm
The same complaints over and over again and nothings changed. eBay and PayPal have become monsters ruling the market so they don't care who they trample on, they know full well for every 1 seller they dump there's another 10 waiting.
Yeah that's the problem isn't it. When the user base is practically anyone in the world more and more people sign up and leave. There has to be a crunch day at some point.. Really amazed a company can screw over so many people so long and get away with it legally. Though this isn't just eBay and PayPal, I could list a lot of companies which do exactly the same and get away with it!
DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:57 pm
I used to go to a post office daily that had 4 or 5 semi successful ebay sellers I would say from the amount of posting they was doing.
I used to say "it's not if eBay will f*ck you, its when" to them, they used to laugh... fast forward 2 years later they all out of business and said I was right each one got stuffed by eBay in some way or another to put them out of business.
I remember reading a similar quote in article I was reading years ago. He was saying its not if eBay will screw you, it's when. I thought at the time it will never happen to me. I have been customer PayPal since 2002, never had any issues for pretty much years. I thought they would look after their customers, how wrong I was. And the quote was exactly right, it is when, not if.

I did not realise there was even a website for reporting various issues. Cannot remember or website it was.. But basically click a box click submit with your evidence and you can get shut down just like that. It is what happened to me I'm sure of it.

PayPal did list my main index page said "mods and hacks" so they took that as the evidence which was reported to them as being true. I have since removed that it does not happen again. But a phrase should not lead you to have your account shut down. It obviously wasn't even investigated. I know nobody look to the page my website design backtraced two months and there was only 4 IP hits on my server which I trace to Atari people. So PayPal did not even look at the page.

Even more pathetic is that my main index page was really nowhere near my PayPal store page. And I know that my store did not even use that phrase in any of my items. So my web store was not even at fault, it just happened to be on the same server as my main website which stated mods and hacks. That was enough to get me shut down. And this is the risk sellers simply are not aware of!

In the mix of all that mess, PayPal at one point did list the item in my store to back up their claims which was a capacitor kit or the SR98 PSU! How that can be classed as a legal mod hack is beyond me. But in PayPals eyes ,it was just further evidence I was doing illegal activities. I mean how is selling capacitors illegal ?

If someone with half a brain cell actually looked into this properly, it all would have been resolved within a few seconds. But at no point was it properly investigated. But this is just exactly the same issues as on eBay.. Anyone can get shut down no matter how sketchy the report is. It basically takes nothing to get shut down and sellers are at risk of this. Everyone's account is literally hanging by a very thin thread.. Once it snaps game over. I just could not be a part of that system any longer anyway, it was just a joke.

DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:57 pm
My advice to people who really want to use eBay or have no choice go read a guide on a getting a iffy account and use that, it's going to be the only thing that will save you in the end.
The only way to use the system is to be as dodgy as the system or worse! We shouldn't have to go to extreme lengths just to buy a few items on eBay. Of course this is only buying items, selling items is a whole new level of chaos!

I saw some newsletter in my eBay account saying sellers will be punished 4% if their seller ratings fall below standard.. I wonder if this is before after they've and you.. I think you sent me similar message a few weeks ago..

Basically eBay will punish the sellers for poor performance even more than before. So the rise of scams will just increase yet again. Sellers are under more pressure to keep their score higher and buyers will cash in on this. Also buyer has to do is buy a item, even if they do not want the item, they can complain to the seller, keep item, it a refund, and this is when the real scam starts.. The buyer will say the seller they will remove their bad feedback for a price. Normally £5-£20 I have seen personally. This is how the buyer makes the money. Because sellers have no choice but to go to extremes to keep their score high, a lot of them have no choice but to pay for this, to have the feedback removed. This is just going to get worse now sellers are now subject to the 4% fines as well now.

I really do feel sorry for people still selling on eBay.. Of course some people never have problems at all, but of course it depends on the items you are selling and what customer base you attract. A guy down the road from me sells sandpaper and such things on eBay. The obviously has not become a target from anyone yet. But he claims just not arguing with buyers is the key.. But it is just an example that he just has not been subjected or targeted by problem buyers yet, or even scammers..

Scammers will basically look around for anyone with 100% feedback. His time will come one day.. With so many sellers the scammers are more likely to target the larger sellers than the smaller ones selling a few items.. So of course a lot of people are simply not aware of these problems. I've been through which much everything and when there are forums set up for targeting sellers scam them, people think I'm making this up! It does happen and I have been told by other sellers this happens.

Some people just have absolutely no idea of the depths of these problems and the extremes people will go to.. Where will it all end which is what I want to know.. I had enough some years ago, and others left long before myself as a saw the problems on the rise. The costs of selling the just going up and just making it not practical any more. As I found out, is just more profitable not to sell on eBay, and simply bin items, it is better value in the end.
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Re: Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by DrF » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:16 pm

I'm surprised ebay hasn't tried shutting you down yet.. They sure do not like anything bad said against them.
That's my shock at why we are in year 4, is it because im not big enough or something? not like that would bother them :lol:
I think i'm covered its critism, not like eBay wont try it on as we know they dont follow any rules/laws or normal thought process
Only decent thing to come out of eBay is Exxos it's how we fell in love :lol:
:chairsmack:
I'm in trouble now :lol:
The only way to use the system is to be as dodgy as the system or worse! We shouldn't have to go to extreme lengths just to buy a few items on eBay. Of course this is only buying items, selling items is a whole new level of chaos!
Its prob why theres a roaring trade in eBay/PayPal accounts, a 2 min Google you can buy them easy, easy enough to setup your own. We wont be talking about that on here, we got enough issues, imagine that fake accounts selling Atari pirate mods oh the horror have Mi6 & Interpol down our necks :lol:
I saw some newsletter in my eBay account saying sellers will be punished 4% if their seller ratings fall below standard.. I wonder if this is before after they've and you.. I think you sent me similar message a few weeks ago..
Its before it starts clocking up under all these different graphs, ive also been told you only get seller discounts if you offer 1 day dispatch now, i need to check that but a few people said they wondered why there invoice had quietly doubled and that was the reason the customer service gave, knowing eBay I can only assume thats real.
A guy down the road from me sells sandpaper and such things on eBay. The obviously has not become a target from anyone yet. But he claims just not arguing with buyers is the key.. But it is just an example that he just has not been subjected or targeted by problem buyers yet, or even scammers..
The buyers know there getting a free item, a replacement and refund just by asking for it, they know eBay will have you else.
I was reading about eBay wanting to charge people for item cases and i'm sure i seen that before, I know PayPal straight up charge you £14 fee if someone issues a chargeback, so suddenly that £1 item becomes real expensive best just send a few more and hope... and there's half your issue.

I know there's dedicated forums to scamming on eBay, how to work it so you rip off sellers, I seen people just straight up blackmailing don't even try to hide it.
It's not just him either eBay have put me out of business a few times, 1 time PayPal even held £14K of mine and told me to get bent basically that was the worst.
Oh wow, I thought my £600 or so was bad!
Very long story that was the reason it got so high was they was telling me I had to keep sending out the orders while they held the money... of course more money was coming in and being held like £300/400 a day. The issue was they demanded proof I had permission to sell the item from the copyright holder who was.... guess... ME :lol: and they would not accept it. I was selling loads this was way back prob about 2007/8. I was ruling my category so I can see why people do it, the cash is immense until they get bored with you. I got about half of it back, because PayPal in the end refunded loads of it even though no one complained, I had customers asking wtf was going on they never asked for it and was happy. I just stopped right there for a few years it took to recover from that.

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Re: Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by exxos » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:04 pm

DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:16 pm
I'm in trouble now :lol:
When are you ever not in trouble ?? :lol:
DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:16 pm
ive also been told you only get seller discounts if you offer 1 day dispatch now, i need to check that but a few people said they wondered why there invoice had quietly doubled and that was the reason the customer service gave, knowing eBay I can only assume thats real.
But everyone ticks that box even if it isn't posted same day anyway.. A lot of the time you simply cannot post same day as well, the Sunday.. And that they eBay have not work that out yet either.

So they offer discounts for one day dispatch, and probably fine everyone else who doesn't to get the money back.

DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:16 pm
The buyers know there getting a free item, a replacement and refund just by asking for it, they know eBay will have you else.
I was reading about eBay wanting to charge people for item cases and i'm sure i seen that before, I know PayPal straight up charge you £14 fee if someone issues a chargeback, so suddenly that £1 item becomes real expensive best just send a few more and hope... and there's half your issue.
Exactly. The companies I use now do seem to give good support as I already talked to them a lot about this before I even signed up. Basically they will investigate both ends of the story and they seem like reasonable people to deal with. It's not like eBay or PayPal where they simply wash their hands of it all and dump all the problems onto the seller and find them if they do not solve them.
DrF wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:16 pm
Very long story that was the reason it got so high was they was telling me I had to keep sending out the orders while they held the money... of course more money was coming in and being held like £300/400 a day. The issue was they demanded proof I had permission to sell the item from the copyright holder who was.... guess... ME :lol: and they would not accept it.

Oh man that sounds bad! I mean how these companies continue operating like this when they have absolutely no idea what they are doing is beyond me. People like us who try and run a small business and trying to well always seem to get the short end of the stick and a get total chaos all the time.

It's like me depending on PayPal to take my payments, that company seemed okay in the beginning, but now this one huge evil corporate machine only interested in profits anyway possible. What chance do small-time guys have we have to use such companies who care absolutely not one bit about its customers. Then they have the nerve to enforce impossible rules on us to better our services and support, when they offer the worst services and support themselves!! That is like the devil trying to educate people into being a saint, on what planet is this normal??

I spent the past few hours looking around for suppliers for general items outside of eBay. It seems mostly amazon is the next logical step. Though I really do not like them either really.

Looking around there are so many sellers selling packaging for example, and practically nobody actually has a website. The ones that do have websites what I have seen so far, their prices actually cheaper than eBay, but then you have to pay VAT and delivery so for things like bubblewrap you actually end up paying double than what was being paid on eBay. EBay just has ruined the online marketplace totally. Years ago they used to be a lot of websites and web shops telling all kinds of items. Of course there still is some about, finding deals on bubblewrap so far is proving rather difficult. It also makes me wonder how people on eBay are even making any profit on the items they are selling in the first place.

What I also don't get is why some people on eBay are selling items cheaper than on their own website. I mean, surely expenses on eBay are going to be a lot higher than selling on their own website ?! Website prices always seem to be more expensive :shrug:
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Re: Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by IngoQ » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:14 am

Did you read that Ebay announced to dump Paypal recently? https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/why-eba ... titor.html

I wonder if this is a turn for the good or the bad...
Ingo :geek:

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Re: Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by DrF » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:57 pm

IngoQ wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:14 am
Did you read that Ebay announced to dump Paypal recently? https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/why-eba ... titor.html

I wonder if this is a turn for the good or the bad...
Oh, yeah we had some rants about that lol :lol:

It seems eBay want to use that Adyen to manage the back end of it all and try and make there own payment system again kind of like when they owned BillPoint way back.

Not many people know but at 1 time PayPal was actually banned on eBay as eBay had their own system, it was only when PayPal started to take off and had less issues did eBay dump their own and go PayPal. eBay were forced by customers into accepting PayPal.
PayPal was fine until eBay got involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billpoint

https://www.cnet.com/news/billpoint-fai ... -for-ebay/

Tiny bit of info on it there, my problem with BillPoint was it used to take at least a week for a withdrawal, at the time PayPal used to charge 50p for transfers under £50... my age is showing now :lol:

We also used to wear onions on our belt as was the fashion at the time :lol:

Does anyone remember when eBay bought SKYPE and tried to make everyone have a customer service number... yeah that went well :lol:

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Re: Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by exxos » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:59 pm

SKYPE screwed up my PC! then didn't microsoft take it over ? I know people were always moaning about it.. I avoid real time chat anyway these days.. had enough of coming online and 20 people all trying to talk to me at once :roll:
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Re: Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by DrF » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:41 pm

exxos wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:59 pm
SKYPE screwed up my PC! then didn't microsoft take it over ? I know people were always moaning about it.. I avoid real time chat anyway these days.. had enough of coming online and 20 people all trying to talk to me at once :roll:
Yeah Microsoft got it and then tried to get me off my lifetime plan I had, had for years. Had a right argument and they left it for a few years until one day they just cut it off and told me get stuffed :lol: going on about there terms and ignoring me, and I was paid up for that year too.

I got a offer 1 Christmas something stupid like £10 a year including the number unlimited UK calls, at the time you had to pay for a normal phone number seperate it had a name like Skype to Go or something. Must have had it at least 10 years min if not longer.

Only had it because it was loads cheaper than getting a phone line at the time which no one would provide to my flat anyhow without serious hassle :lol:

I had a 0845 number at a time until OFCOM screwed them up too, and I had a awesome side gig routing calls for a let's say "male only adult phone conferencing & entertainment service" until that got OFCOMed to death too and everyone started getting online to get off :lol:

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Re: Why I don't sell on ebay...

Post by exxos » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:15 pm

I think there may be to much info in that somewhere :lol:
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

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