Am I getting it right ?

Atari talk, or the life and the universe and things. Just keep it clean!
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Petari
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:32 pm

Am I getting it right ?

Post by Petari » Thu May 10, 2018 8:05 am

I spotted in thread at AF some discussion about running DOSBOX on Aranym, and problems with it under Mint :
http://atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 0&start=25
They complain that it is slow. Sure, double emulation, or better said emulation in emulation, on not much fast system - what they expected ?
I can't believe that there is no DOSBOX for Android - since that would be how to run it. Did not look after, though, because I will for sure not use it on my smartie.
That thread started with some YT promotion of free OS solutions for Atari ST and compatibles. Now, looking who is involved in it, and constant pointing on "TOS is under copyright. We need free OS for Atari ST family, open source ..." . Yes, some things are done - Mint, EmuTOS . And still, I'm sure that MagiC is TOS alternative OS, what was and is used most. And it is not free. Maybe people will to pay if it is good ?
They probably want to attract people to join project(s). Well, there is a lot of talented people, who could do it, considering knowledge, but:
they need to work, have family . So, no time and energy for it (unlike smarthead moderator at AF). People have own ideas how to do things. Joining some team, where older members, leader dictate rules is just enough to stay away. Why should someone with some knowledge and experience about TOS join project, which claims that 'only documented TOS functions, features are and will be implemented" . Yep, 'good attitude', and result is huge %-age of SW not working (in my tests some 60%). Just lack of realism, because we know how TOS docs are incomplete, with some errors too.
But actually, it's all by Joska's approach, in fact: this is just spending of time, nothing is relevant, all it is same. Except that some people there is more equal than others.
There is 2 kind of people: one thinking about moving to Mars after here becomes too bad, the others thinking about how to keep this planet habitable.

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IngoQ
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Re: Am I getting it right ?

Post by IngoQ » Thu May 10, 2018 9:43 am

Petari wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:05 am
I spotted in thread at AF some discussion about running DOSBOX on Aranym, and problems with it under Mint :
What the heck? What for? And even more relevant: Why not use

a) DOS Box under Windows
b) a real DOS machine?
Petari wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:05 am
I can't believe that there is no DOSBOX for Android - since that would be how to run it. Did not look after, though, because I will for sure not use it on y smartie.
Sure there is:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... sbox&hl=de
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Petari
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:32 pm

Re: Am I getting it right ?

Post by Petari » Thu May 10, 2018 10:09 am

I think that they refuse to use Windows, at least big %-age of them. Same for DOS. Later is actually barely possible now.
What made them to trying those crazy combinations with Mint and Aranym - later may be possible on Raspberry too, I guess that there is build for it too.
Ah, and for sure there is DOSBOX for Linux. But it works on 'evil' PC :lol:
There is 2 kind of people: one thinking about moving to Mars after here becomes too bad, the others thinking about how to keep this planet habitable.

stephen_usher
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Re: Am I getting it right ?

Post by stephen_usher » Thu May 10, 2018 7:37 pm

There are always ideologs who only want totally "free" and "open" software on their machines. They will throw the baby out with the bath water just to meet their silly goal. It doesn't matter to them if none of the software works, it's "free" and hence better ideologically. They can also turn into bullies as they feel that they're morally better than everyone else. You see it again and again.

Of course, there are some who feel that just having machines which aren't open source is bad and so go about building their own... and usually lose the plot and create a Frankenstein's monster which does lots of things "better" but no-longer fulfils the task of running the original software or interfacing with any of the original peripherals.

Let them have their fun... and ignore them.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

Petari
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:32 pm

Re: Am I getting it right ?

Post by Petari » Fri May 11, 2018 8:04 am

Yes, that can be important factor too. I even explained it little at YT. Shortly: you need plenty of free time to do free SW. That would be part what is not so rare. But open source idea makes it more complicated: then need to spend extra time to make good sources, what some other can follow and doing further development of SW. That's still nice. But when some team, who works on some bigger freeware, open source project doing propaganda to attract contributors, while dictating rules, that somehow works not well. Concrete, in case of EmuTOS first thing I would do is to rework whole FAT filesystem code - because that is much slower than original Atari+DR TOS code for it. And TOS is done with ancient, inefficient C compiler.
"ignore them" - I think that I will rather come with my arguments. And I did it on some places. And they could not beat them. At AF thread went into chaos, mostly because whole team is there (and only Vincent came with reasonable arguments). and of course because miserable moderation, unfairness.
And one guy asked about adding my Virtual Floppy code to EmuTOS - better said about it open source status. I really don't see EmuTOS as something usable, especially not by some gamer. Somehow don't believe that there is more than 10 people on Planet which using it on real Atari. And even if I publish source, it is so tied to Atari TOS, and it's specific versions (1.04 and 1.62) that will be not usable without serious corrections in some other OS.
That may lead us to: open source authors are too optimistic. They think that basic idea of sharing can solve everything. Look Hatari - there is generic cross-platform GUI, what is just far from really user friendly one. There are speed problems with Hatari when emulating TT. On 4x4 GHz PC. That's absurd. They should forget some school rules, and make more efficient C code. Changing whole algorithms.
Finally, what I consider as well made free SW, what eventually became open source too: Steem. It was made by 2 brothers. There are even some ASM parts for speed (was important around 2005) . And they made self (not asking others for) Linux version too, with special for it designed GUI part.
Source code was released much later, after they realized that will have no time to work on it more. That needed some extra effort, and they done it too well. Nice attitude. As we know, Steven Seagal continued Steem project. Myself done some improvements of Steem too (despite my poor C knowledge). Sadly, it seems that Steven abandoned it. We should disable this smart phones and tablets, so young people will have more time for good things :mrgreen:
There is 2 kind of people: one thinking about moving to Mars after here becomes too bad, the others thinking about how to keep this planet habitable.

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