Windows bashing

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Petari
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by Petari » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:01 am

IngoQ wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:38 am
IMHO thats not so much a matter of space calculation as of data security.

If you overwrite an existiting file, windows will first copy the new file, then delete the old file and rename the new file with the old filename. This is because if copying fails or is aborted, it will not have destroyed the original file. To circumvent that behaviour you would simply have to delete the original file irreversibly (Shift-Delete, no trashbin) first, and then copy the new one.
I believe that you are right with explanation. But why not giving then proper message to user ? They threat people like idiots in many cases.

Petari
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by Petari » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:09 am

exxos wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:52 am
I just have to press delete and it goes into the bin, then I can copy the files. I can understand your reasoning, but for me its just a annoyance.
No, when you press delete then it is simply deleted, and goes not in bin. Otherwise, there would be no space for copy.

It is reasonable to assume that user is aware what doing when copies file with same name - that old one will be destroyed. Simple warning that it will be overwritten is what other OS-es give (like Desktop of TOS).

And what is most absurd, is that if Windows cares so much for user's data safety, why forces to have only 1, C: partition ? Why puts all user data to C: ?
When that partition is most vulnerable. With reason - there is most of action with hard disk, so normal that errors will appear first on C: partition.
For some 20 years I always make not much big C: partition, where can install Win, and have some extra space for swap file and other needed + some rare SW what can install only on C. All relevant data is not on C: . Best that be not on same hard disk, where is C: .

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IngoQ
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by IngoQ » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:25 pm

Petari wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:01 am
I believe that you are right with explanation. But why not giving then proper message to user ? They threat people like idiots in many cases.
Yep, they do. But when I look around at my workplace, most of the users ARE idiots, so I can understand where they are coming from ;)

I use Directory Opus instead of the stock file explorer, which is a lot more clever about these things. But it surely is not fool proof. In my experience, there is always a tool to circumvent the windows anoyances, so that the system becomes more my system. But again: I would prefer Linux, given the choice...
Ingo :geek:

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IngoQ
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by IngoQ » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:44 pm

Petari wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:09 am
And what is most absurd, is that if Windows cares so much for user's data safety, why forces to have only 1, C: partition ? Why puts all user data to C: ?
When that partition is most vulnerable. With reason - there is most of action with hard disk, so normal that errors will appear first on C: partition.
For some 20 years I always make not much big C: partition, where can install Win, and have some extra space for swap file and other needed + some rare SW what can install only on C. All relevant data is not on C: . Best that be not on same hard disk, where is C: .
It does not force you to do that, you can always have multiple partitions. But if you chose all default settings during installation, it does only create one large partition, that's true. But for example Debian and Ubuntu do exactly the same.

And regarding the user data: The user profiles can be stored at any location you like, same goes for home folders. You just have to set it up, and most users just go with the defaults.

In our network here at work we have Windows set up in order to now allow the users to store any data locally. User profiles are centrally stored and only synced to the local system on login for speed. Home folders are redirected to network folders, and user access to the local file system is prohibited. That way the client can burn to ashes and no data loss.
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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exxos
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by exxos » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:12 pm

Petari wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:09 am
No, when you press delete then it is simply deleted, and goes not in bin. Otherwise, there would be no space for copy.
nope.. always goes in the bin unless its a large file to big for bin...
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IngoQ
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by IngoQ » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:25 pm

exxos wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:12 pm
nope.. always goes in the bin unless its a large file to big for bin...
Actually both is true ;) Windows uses a recycle bin only on local harddrives, which includes your Ramdisk. Not on removable drives like a floppy and not on network drives, at least not as a default.

If an external drive registers as "removable" is btw. controlled by the drive. There are for example thumb drives, that register as hard drives whereas other ones register as removable.
Ingo :geek:

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Petari
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by Petari » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:38 pm

My mistake - I meant shift key (and it is same key in Total Commander - silly me :D ) .
So, if you hold down shift key, and then click delete, Win will say: Are you sure to want to delete .... and will delete, without Recycle Bin.
But in Total Commander you can set it to opposite - so delete will be default, and if hold down shift it will go to Recycle .

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IngoQ
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by IngoQ » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:56 pm

Just in case anyone mistakes me for a windows fanboy, here is my windows bashing:
  • Windows 10 spying on users, do I need to say more?
  • A current Windows 7 installation takes almost 2 days, because of literally hundreds of updates that need to be installed. Microsoft should really learn a thing or two about packet managers...
  • Microsoft repacking the same update again and again under different KB-numbers, so that that you really have no chance of blocking a particular update, like the Meltdown and Spectre crap.
  • Windows printer drivers, again, need I say more?
  • scan and fix error on foreign removable media...
  • forcing users to upgrade to Windows 10 by disabling support for current CPUs, that really are compatible
  • STILL no working UI scaling!
  • Tiles
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Petari
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by Petari » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:28 pm

Well, my main tool works only in Windows. And it still works in latest ones, although there are diverse issues, mostly in fullscreen mode, what I barely use.
And despite I agree with all bad said, we must be aware that there are things where Windows is better than any Linux - and here I don't mean gaming.
I went back to 7, SP1, disabled all updates - what is a must if don't want constant idiotic updates and screwing it totally. Some games work not in it, but I can leave without them. Not without Steem Debugger :D
Wonder, how hard would be to port it to Linux ? Actually, only GUI part (added debugger stuff) is what missing. So, not hard. Any C, X expert to volunteer ?

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IngoQ
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Re: Windows bashing

Post by IngoQ » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:49 pm

Petari wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:28 pm
Well, my main tool works only in Windows.
Sadly this is true in my case as well. The tools I use for work and at home are windows based, and for most of them there is no alternative on Linux in sight.

For example:
  • Directory Opus - In my mind the best file manager there is. Nemo is not bad, but DOpus is in a different league
  • ZOC Terminal. This one is quite ironic. Why is the best available terminal client Windows based?
  • Devolutions Remote Desktop Manager. We have hundreds of remote connection, and this is the tool to manage them. Did not find anything equivalent.
  • MS Outlook. It can be argued that there are a lot of enterprise grade PIMs out there, but if you use Exchange you have to use Outlook. Evolution sadly is crap.
  • MS Visio. I would have paid good money for something as versatile as Visio, but no, did not found anything. Dia is on a good way, but it still needs a lot of work
One thing that annoyed the heck out of me, although this is very subjective: I really hate the font rendering on Linux systems. Windows is better but no system renders fonts as beautiful as Mac OS.
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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