Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Blogs & guides and tales of woo by forum members.
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4641
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by rubber_jonnie » Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:06 pm

Another nail in the Windows 11 coffin for me - Neither of my laptops has a supported CPU. If you have a 7th gen Intel 7700HQ CPU, your machine is unsupported.

My secondary laptop has an AMD A9, so that's perhaps not a surprise, but both otherwise exceed the specs from Microsoft.

I could hack it on there, there are plenty of guides, but that's it for me. I'll stick with running it as a VM for now.

Off to Apple I'm afraid as soon as the new MacBook Pro's arrive.
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ultimate 1MB, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k +APE Warp) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg), 1040STF long button floppy, 2x 1040 STFMs + Gotek, 2x 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher, Mega ST1, Mega ST4, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
Amiga stuff, Mac stuff, Sinclair stuff etc...
www.electronicnothingness.co.uk

User avatar
Steve
Posts: 1352
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by Steve » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:05 pm

Same with Apple I'm afraid. Remember when Apple changed from PPC CPU's to Intel? You think they'd support the last PPC Mac with at least a couple of OS updates surely especially since it cost you 3 grand, no... The very next OS Snow Leopard supported absolutely zero PPC, discontinued the entire product line and support.

Microsoft is ironically has a much much much better track record than Apple... So I dare say you are swapping a devil for another devil. Your brand new M1 will be obsoleted in about one year.

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16056
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by exxos » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:06 pm

ahh I was in mid-rant when chrome crashed.

I just copied out of the dictation box, it is full of errors and I cannot really be bothered to go though correcting it all again.
I know Linux tech tips has been on about this for a while
what I remember they were supposed to be fixing the CPU
port

my PC was built in 2012.
I cannot upgrade because this is basically the last motherboard which has a floppy drive port
hopefully this PC will keep chugging along
with windows seven
security does become a problem I would just put the Ubuntu on my laptop and use that for
e-mails and such
I also get
sick and tired of
not getting updates for my
android for tablets
pain of it is old comma
of what I used for
this fine
just ridiculous that
your basely forced to update stuff all the time
I mean how much he wasted this generating
software developers
don't want to support all the platforms any more
plus as
I have
said before many times comma
this PC is so
boxed up with stuff
that it is unlikely to run
in later versions of Windows anyway
chrome went update on my tablet any more because it is too old
I had the same problem with
no doubt Google will
supporting windows seven before too long
I really don't want to spend half my life
reinstalling all my software and keeping up with updates just so I can
get my e-mails
oh and spend huge amounts of money in doing so
the door carries on we will just be
all on subscription fees for everything
we built own any software or hardware any more
we will be will be forced to rent it all
and when the software
companies decide they are not supporting it comma
they will ramp up the price for new hardware
you will be forced
to pay for a high subscription to continue
doing stuff
is basically what
Microsoft are doing all the time
I'm still not convinced that Microsoft
won't go to a advert based system because they must have lost a lot of money
giving away windows previously
then pay subscription
of like
to get updates and
remove adverts
oh and when you get the updates comma
you can use the CPU older than two years
so you have to rebuild your whole PC in order to continue getting updates
but you have to pay for of course
ultimately Microsoft will run all your software
and you will just have a simple terminal to access your cloud account
will be paying a premium for
get rid of that pesky thing where
users can decide what PCs they want
and what hardware they want
that Microsoft
let
still virtual machine and take care of all security for you
for a price of course comma
and because you do not own any hardware any more comma
Microsoft will own all your data
and charge you to access it
they pretty much doing that now already
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~

User avatar
arkadiusz.makarenko
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:36 am
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by arkadiusz.makarenko » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:13 pm

Is it reasonable to expect from Microsoft support of previous generations of hardware in their new OS?

I am sure that I am not migrating to Windows 11 any time soon. I don't have patience any more to look for workarounds.

PS
I am still waiting for SSRS support in new .NET revisions, they discontinued .NET Framework, but they "forgot" to migrate their main reporting libraries (tools are ok) to new tech, and SSRS libraries used before are well over a decade old.
Do not trust people. They are capable of greatness.
~ Stanislaw Lem

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16056
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by exxos » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:31 pm

arkadiusz.makarenko wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:13 pm
Is it reasonable to expect from Microsoft support of previous generations of hardware in their new OS?
I think that is very debatable by itself.

Older drivers and such are already done tried and tested so why not support them. If they were a user driven company rather than profit based, they would support older hardware. I really hate binning otherwise good hardware just because the software developers say "it's too old, buy new stuff". Software developers are driving sales of the hardware market.

I mean sure if you want to play the latest games and have the latest hardware, then chuck as much money and time at it as you please. But it should be your own personal choice to make. If you want better faster hardware then it should be up to you when you buy it not the software developers.

But my point was being, if I want latest security updates, I need Windows 11, then I have to buy a whole new PC.. for what exactly ? Then continue to do so every two years or whatever. A lot of people simply cannot afford to change their hardware all the time.

I'm just not one of those people who go out and spend £2,000+ on a new mobile phone every year just to have the latest stuff. When my device breaks I will fix it or replace it, and not before (unless I have a very good reason for needing a newer device).

I would really love to have better and faster nVME storage on my PC. But this is difficult to do on a 2012 machine. There are adapter cards, but of course Windows 7 was not really geared up for such things, or the motherboard. But I'm not going to replace all my hardware and reinstall windows and fight with workarounds for the next year just for the sake of faster storage. It's a shame but oh well. My workaround is I just run a RAM Disk instead. Basically gets used as a daily junk folder. Saves a lot of unnecessary read/write operations to the SSD and is easily 10x faster. Good enough for my purposes.
arkadiusz.makarenko wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:13 pm
I am sure that I am not migrating to Windows 11 any time soon. I don't have patience any more to look for workarounds.
Me neither. I spend a good part of my day doing such work and I am just at the end of doing it now.
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~

User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4641
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by rubber_jonnie » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:47 pm

Steve wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:05 pm
Same with Apple I'm afraid. Remember when Apple changed from PPC CPU's to Intel? You think they'd support the last PPC Mac with at least a couple of OS updates surely especially since it cost you 3 grand, no... The very next OS Snow Leopard supported absolutely zero PPC, discontinued the entire product line and support.

Microsoft is ironically has a much much much better track record than Apple... So I dare say you are swapping a devil for another devil. Your brand new M1 will be obsoleted in about one year.
Maybe the M1 (I will likely be getting an M1X) will be obsolete in a year, but I expect like my current MBP it'll still be able to run one below the current OS in 9 years time, unlike my Windows laptop which is seemingly done after 4. In fact quite a few Mac owners I know have kept the same hardware for a long time because of the continued OS support for their ageing hardware.

Yes, I agree, swapping MS for Apple is swapping one devil for another, but Apple haven't made the same mistake with Intel/ARM as they did with PPC (Yet), but making my very powerful laptop obsolete after 4 years is really not great and I expect will harm the Win 11 take-up, at least initially.

There are aspect of Apple I don't like, such as reparability, but a lot of Windows laptops are just the same now, so if I'm going to buy something new, I am going to test the water elsewhere.

I may come back at some future point and say 'that was a stupid idea', but I won't know if I don't try.

And I know I could run Linux, but I have tried and it doesn't do what I need sufficiently well.
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ultimate 1MB, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k +APE Warp) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg), 1040STF long button floppy, 2x 1040 STFMs + Gotek, 2x 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher, Mega ST1, Mega ST4, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
Amiga stuff, Mac stuff, Sinclair stuff etc...
www.electronicnothingness.co.uk

User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4641
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by rubber_jonnie » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:48 pm

exxos wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:06 pm
ahh I was in mid-rant when chrome crashed.

I just copied out of the dictation box, it is full of errors and I cannot really be bothered to go though correcting it all again.
Interesting rant :)
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ultimate 1MB, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k +APE Warp) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg), 1040STF long button floppy, 2x 1040 STFMs + Gotek, 2x 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher, Mega ST1, Mega ST4, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
Amiga stuff, Mac stuff, Sinclair stuff etc...
www.electronicnothingness.co.uk

User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4641
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by rubber_jonnie » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:17 pm

arkadiusz.makarenko wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:13 pm
Is it reasonable to expect from Microsoft support of previous generations of hardware in their new OS?

I am sure that I am not migrating to Windows 11 any time soon. I don't have patience any more to look for workarounds.

PS
I am still waiting for SSRS support in new .NET revisions, they discontinued .NET Framework, but they "forgot" to migrate their main reporting libraries (tools are ok) to new tech, and SSRS libraries used before are well over a decade old.
I'd say it's reasonable to expect to be able to use your hardware for more than 4 years before you have to upgrade to get the latest OS. My MBP is 9 years old and runs Catalina, just one behind the latest OS, so only just becoming obsolete in terms of the OS it can use.

I don't think MS have done a great job here. Perhaps in the future they will extend the pool of CPUs a bit further, who knows.

I'm not saying that Apple are going to be any better, but I have 'done' MS since DOS, probably in the region of 30 years. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome. Time to try something else.
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ultimate 1MB, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k +APE Warp) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg), 1040STF long button floppy, 2x 1040 STFMs + Gotek, 2x 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher, Mega ST1, Mega ST4, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
Amiga stuff, Mac stuff, Sinclair stuff etc...
www.electronicnothingness.co.uk

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16056
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by exxos » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:25 pm

rubber_jonnie wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:17 pm
I'm not saying that Apple are going to be any better, but I have 'done' MS since DOS, probably in the region of 30 years. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome. Time to try something else.
+1

I went from DOS,win 3.11,95,98,98SE,XP,7..

But even Ubuntu updates. I would move to that, but the same thing seems to happen anyway ? Though I would assume Ubuntu would run on *any* age hardware, but its new to me...
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~

User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4641
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: Not good Microsoft, you've lost me now.

Post by rubber_jonnie » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:31 pm

exxos wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:31 pm
arkadiusz.makarenko wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:13 pm
Is it reasonable to expect from Microsoft support of previous generations of hardware in their new OS?
I think that is very debatable by itself.

Older drivers and such are already done tried and tested so why not support them. If they were a user driven company rather than profit based, they would support older hardware. I really hate binning otherwise good hardware just because the software developers say "its to old, buy new stuff". Software developers are driving sales of the hardware market.

I mean sure if you want to play the latest games and have the latest hardware.. Then chuck as much money and time at it as you please. But it should be your own personal choice to make. If you want better faster hardware then it should be up to you when you buy it not the software developers.

But my point was being, if I want latest security updates, I need Windows 11, then I have to buy a whole new PC.. for what exactly ? Then continue to do so every two years or whatever. A lot of people simply cannot afford to change their hardware all the time.

I'm just not one of those people who go out and spend £2,000+ on a new mobile phone every year just to have the latest stuff. When my device breaks I will fix it or replace it, and not before (unless I have a very good reason for needing a newer device).

I would really love to have better and faster nVME storage on my PC. But this is difficult to do on a 2012 machine. There are adapter cards, but of course Windows 7 was not really geared up for such things, or the motherboard. But I'm not going to replace all my hardware and reinstall windows and fight with workarounds for the next year just for the sake of faster storage.It's a shame but oh well. My workaround is I just run a RAM Disk instead. Basically gets used as a daily junk folder. Saves a lot of unnecessary read/write operations to the SSD and is easily 10x faster. Good enough for my purposes.
arkadiusz.makarenko wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:13 pm
I am sure that I am not migrating to Windows 11 any time soon. I don't have patience any more to look for workarounds.
Me neither. I spend a good part of my day doing such work and I am just at the end of doing it now.
For work I have to use Win10, that is fixed, and my Xeon based work PC can use Win11 if needed, but I doubt I'll see an upgrade before it's replaced by something new.

I guess my point is, I have never been in this situation before with Windows. I have always been able to use the current version of Windows on my hardware, even if it has been 4 years old, and these specs seem to be edging out hardware that is really quite good.

For example I have a Dell XPS9560, 32GB RAM, 1TB NvME drive, TPM 2 with a Core i7 7700HQ CPU and Nvidia GTX1050 GPU.

It is powerful, it is fast. Yes you could argue I could run it another 5 years until October 2025 when Win10 expires, when it'll be just like my current 9yo MBP running Catalina.

I just want to try something new, something different, and my current Mac OS usage has been an altogether pleasant experience. So my next laptop will be a new Apple. We'll see how I feel about it this time next year.
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ultimate 1MB, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k +APE Warp) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg), 1040STF long button floppy, 2x 1040 STFMs + Gotek, 2x 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher, Mega ST1, Mega ST4, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
Amiga stuff, Mac stuff, Sinclair stuff etc...
www.electronicnothingness.co.uk

Locked

Return to “MEMBER BLOGS”