STFM Keyboard Remake

All information relating to the Alpha plus all the WIP threads etc.
keli
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by keli » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:17 pm

Isn't that the extra key between left shift and Z on non-us keyboards?

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Icky
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by Icky » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:32 pm

keli wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:17 pm
Isn't that the extra key between left shift and Z on non-us keyboards?
Hi Keli - I know the one you mean the | \ key. It's not that one as that is on the schematic but you got me looking at the schematic and a real keyboard and It might be the ~ # key under the return on non-us keyboards.

It would be interesting to see if using any of the switch matrix that is not used could be used to send key signals through.

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exxos
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by exxos » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:34 pm

Icky wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:32 pm
It would be interesting to see if using any of the switch matrix that is not used could be used to send key signals through.
Ohhh that gives me a idea... TOS swap for one ;)
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

keli
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by keli » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:39 pm

How are you going to do the controller? Are you going to salvage old HC6303's from existing keyboard, or are you going to use a different microcontroller and program it from scratch.

Going with a new controller (maybe a Teensy board?), would allow adding new features. For instance one could separate the joystik and mouse ports, so one could have all three connected at the same time. A board with an USB host cababilites could even allow using USB mice and game pads instead of the 9-pin ones....

Some demos rely on executing custom code on the controller though, so one would either need to lose compatibility with those (it's only a few demos anyway), or have to implement an emulator on the recreated controller (either custom workarounds for the few demos like Hatari does in its IKBD emulation, or a full blown Hitatchi 6303 emulator like Steem seems to be doing...)

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Icky
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by Icky » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:18 am

keli wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:39 pm
How are you going to do the controller? Are you going to salvage old HC6303's from existing keyboard, or are you going to use a different microcontroller and program it from scratch.

Going with a new controller (maybe a Teensy board?), would allow adding new features. For instance one could separate the joystik and mouse ports, so one could have all three connected at the same time. A board with an USB host cababilites could even allow using USB mice and game pads instead of the 9-pin ones....

Some demos rely on executing custom code on the controller though, so one would either need to lose compatibility with those (it's only a few demos anyway), or have to implement an emulator on the recreated controller (either custom workarounds for the few demos like Hatari does in its IKBD emulation, or a full blown Hitatchi 6303 emulator like Steem seems to be doing...)
Am taking baby steps at the moment as getting the keys right is actually the first thing. The ST keycaps are not in line with the standard sizes today. As mentioned I have a couple of manufactures sorting out quotes for these different key sizes and the function keys.

All the above are interesting ideas and anything is possible with the board once the basics are done. For now it's just going to be as near as exact to the original (yep I know the original STFM did not use Cherry MX switches) so will use the old controllers.

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Icky
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by Icky » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:09 am

Most of the ST keys are not a normal sizes based on todays keycap sizing.

Most keycap sizes start with 1U for a single key and then you can get keys in 1.5U, 1.75U, 2U, 2.25U etc and normal spacebars are 6U or 7U. Also the return key is not a standard size. There are keys similar to the ST Return key but the right hand side is a lot wider see example picture below:

Screenshot 2019-07-24 at 06.59.48.png
Screenshot 2019-07-24 at 06.59.48.png (31.02 KiB) Viewed 741 times

The ST keys are as follows (from my initial measuring):
  • 1.33U - Left Shift
  • 1.66U - Tab, Alternate, Caps Lock, Right Shift, Backspace, Help, Undo
  • 2U - Control
  • 11U - Spacebar

The companies that I have been engaged with do support these sizes but at a cost compared to the standard sizing.

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Icky
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by Icky » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:44 pm

Icky wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:09 am
The ST keys are as follows (from my initial measuring):
  • 1.33U - Left Shift
  • 1.66U - Tab, Alternate, Caps Lock, Right Shift, Backspace, Help, Undo
  • 2U - Control
  • 11U - Spacebar
After remeasuring, as I have been working on the cherry keys placement on the board, I noticed I got my initial measurements wrong. I could still be out slightly but below are my updated sizes.
  • 1.25U - Left Shift
  • 1.5166U - Tab, Alternate, Caps Lock, Right Shift, Backspace, Help, Undo
  • 1.7777U - Control
  • 9.5U - Spacebar
With this in mind I have been updating the Cherry MX library in Eagle to include the additional keycaps and included the switches to incorporate an RGB led for backlighting.

Screenshot 2019-07-27 at 21.34.21.png
Screenshot 2019-07-27 at 21.34.21.png (9.56 KiB) Viewed 659 times

Also to make this work I will need to create a switch plane for the switches to clip into so exporting to Fusion will allow me to create this and do a 3D print. This is where I have go to so far, am still working on the key caps for the other keys.

Screenshot 2019-07-27 at 21.26.55.png
Screenshot 2019-07-27 at 21.26.55.png (334.39 KiB) Viewed 659 times

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Icky
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by Icky » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:24 pm

I think I may have to round off the sharp corners on this as its looking like some sort of weapon.

Will print this off to see how near it is to the real FN keycap

Screenshot 2019-08-05 at 19.18.18.png
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Screenshot 2019-08-05 at 19.18.44.png
Screenshot 2019-08-05 at 19.18.44.png (5.02 KiB) Viewed 539 times
Screenshot 2019-08-05 at 19.19.09.png
Screenshot 2019-08-05 at 19.19.09.png (41.17 KiB) Viewed 539 times

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exxos
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by exxos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:35 pm

"Death by F-key" kinda has a nice ring to it...
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

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PhilC
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Re: STFM Keyboard Remake

Post by PhilC » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:09 pm

exxos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:35 pm
"Death by F-key" kinda has a nice ring to it...
Yeah, careful with the spring tensions
If it ain't broke, test it to Destruction.

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