Plan for 2019 ( abandoning repairs and upgrades)

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IngoQ
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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by IngoQ » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:09 am

Yes, I believe this is the best route to go. And this is coming from someone, who's solely 16 Bit Atari is a STE ;)

I said it a couple of times before: We would all very much prefer a little less of a motivated and healthy Chris than have you burned out and not beeing able to use your hands any more. So please take care of your self and your girlfriend with highest priority. We will happily accompany you in the remaining time ;)

But even from a technical point of view, this makes sense. The STE has a higher level of integration, which means dead ends when you look at Smonson's expansion for example. It might even be easier to add the STEs features to a later iteration of the STFM remake. And I strongly believe, that the remake project will come out as the closest thing to a next gen ST, as possible.

I will try to get me an 1040STFM as soon as possible and take part in maybe the next iteration of the board, when time and funds allow me so.
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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exxos
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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by exxos » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:25 am

Gargoyle wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:44 am
Yep, wise move! It must be very wearing after a while. With the Falcon especially, it is quite a niche market isn't it?
It is exhausting. I push in all the free time I have into this stuff, and some days 14 hours working on stuff. Take that into account and how slow projects progress in general.. if I spent 50% less time, project would take twice as long. Instead of waiting 2 months for a kit, it would be 4 months. I don't want to push so many hours per day with this stuff for another year.

Falcons seem to be gaining a lot of interest lately, don't really know why. In terms of my work, its almost like, fix one falcon, have 2 more arrive.. I try and do those machines for people first, but each machine pushes back all other projects for weeks/months. Then another falcon turns up.. I want to help people out, but its just something I can't simply sustain doing.
Gargoyle wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:44 am
Doing this means you can make the very best STF remake there is (and possibly ever will be??) then work on new and interesting ideas/upgrades for it.

Like I said before, most Atari problems are debugging faults in design, its just madness to keep going in that direction. Once the STF has faster ST-RAM, we can gain extra video modes, without need of drivers (not like isa gfx cards need etc).. Faster CPU, either 50MHz 68000, or 030 CPU.. can even add proper 32bit access for ROM easily. Speed wise would beat stock falcon. If we add DSP for sound system, and STE DAC playback, we pretty much have built a falcon anyway. Only it would be cheaper and more powerful.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by exxos » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:38 am

IngoQ wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:09 am
I said it a couple of times before: We would all very much prefer a little less of a motivated and healthy Chris than have you burned out and not being able to use your hands any more.
Yes, I need to rest my hands more as well.. Voice-rec helps a lot, but when doing 100s of emails each day, the manual corrections I have to do really add up as well. Being in pain constantly isn't really helping with the "fun" side to it all.. I really need to take a few weeks off :roll:
IngoQ wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:09 am
But even from a technical point of view, this makes sense. The STE has a higher level of integration, which means dead ends when you look at Smonson's expansion for example. It might even be easier to add the STEs features to a later iteration of the STFM remake. And I strongly believe, that the remake project will come out as the closest thing to a next gen ST, as possible.
Yes, STE is a nice machine, but integrated to much. Of course STF remake will go same direction, BUT, the chips can be edited, on the STE, they can't. The suska code is actually a STE machine. If we could build a better DAC circuit, then it can be added.. but of course that's another project for me to do.. Its not high up on the to do list.

Priority is getting the STF remake working and testing to make sure its a stable platform to build upon. Then testing out the suska cores one by one making sure they are 100% compatible. If there are bugs, they can be fixed. Though I think this will likely be work ongoing for the next 2 years.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by Steve » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:40 am

exxos wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:25 am
Once the STF has faster ST-RAM, we can gain extra video modes, without need of drivers (not like isa gfx cards need etc).. Faster CPU, either 50MHz 68000, or 030 CPU.. can even add proper 32bit access for ROM easily. Speed wise would beat stock falcon. If we add DSP for sound system, and STE DAC playback, we pretty much have built a falcon anyway. Only it would be cheaper and more powerful.
This is the dream! I hope you can make it happen!
Falcon ct60e 060 - 256mb ram - phantom bus and dsp accel // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - Ati Mach64 2mb // Atari STM 4160 - 4MB ram - 16Mhz exxos 1.5 booster - Ultrasatan

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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by exxos » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:42 am

Steve wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:40 am
exxos wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:25 am
Once the STF has faster ST-RAM, we can gain extra video modes, without need of drivers (not like isa gfx cards need etc).. Faster CPU, either 50MHz 68000, or 030 CPU.. can even add proper 32bit access for ROM easily. Speed wise would beat stock falcon. If we add DSP for sound system, and STE DAC playback, we pretty much have built a falcon anyway. Only it would be cheaper and more powerful.
This is the dream! I hope you can make it happen!
Its possible, and of course there are 030 50MHz boosters etc, so in a way its nothing new. Its just mashing it all into a new "ST" where the work is.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

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IngoQ
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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by IngoQ » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:09 am

exxos wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:38 am
Yes, I need to rest my hands more as well.. Voice-rec helps a lot, but when doing 100s of emails each day, the manual corrections I have to do really add up as well. Being in pain constantly isn't really helping with the "fun" side to it all.. I really need to take a few weeks off :roll:
<mother mode>
I believe I mentioned this as well, but RSI can cause permanent nerve damage, so please make that a priority. The scene will survive, if you take some time off and get that treated.
</mother mode>

;)
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by PhilC » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:43 pm

LMAO @ /mothermode

But got to agree.
If it ain't broke, test it to Destruction.

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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by tzok » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:54 pm

I truly admire your work (which unfortunately I couldn't afford), but don't quite understand the idea behind the STF remake project. First of all it will be extremely expensive, then you will need a working STF to salvage Atari proprietary chips from it, and a case. So what is a point in destroying a working piece of collectable hardware just to build it's replica? It's like ripping of a body and some engine parts from a working Ford Model-T just to put it on a modern chassis. You're destroying an icon to build something that is no longer original, but also isn't much better than the original. If there would be a FPGA replacements for Atari proprietary chips I'd understand that. I'm also skeptical about advantage of THT parts over SMD. THT are good for amateurs because in prototyping, there is no need to solder them at all, or you may use perboard/veroboards. Soldering a brand new SMD parts on a well-made PCB isn't much harder than soldering THT board. If someone can't solder well it won't solder THT motherboard either.

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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by exxos » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:03 pm

I think you really need to read the about all the goals before slating the project and all the people who are involved in supporting it.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

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Re: Plan for 2019

Post by rubber_jonnie » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:26 am

exxos wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:03 pm
I think you really need to read the about all the goals before slating the project and all the people who are involved in supporting it.
I second this. There are many STF/Ms in the UK marketplace that are failing for one reason or another, or simply exist as just a mainboard. I've picked up 4 mainboards alone over the last year, and at least one certainly fell into the category of donor board because it had too many faults and other damage to make it worth fixing. But the parts are a goldmine for this sort of project.

I think your plan is entirely the right way to go and I'm with you 100%
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ape Warp mod, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg) + Gotek, 1040STFM + Vortex ATOnce + Gotek, 1040STF long button floppy, 4160 STE with Gotek and ROM switcher, 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher and CosmosEx, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
Amiga stuff, Mac stuff, Sinclair stuff etc...
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