Falcon is freezing in demos

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KyleB
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Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by KyleB » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:27 pm

Interesting fault this, my new falcon (14mb ram, fpu) crashes whenever I run a demo.

It's a consistent pattern. Within a few seconds of running, it will freeze solid. Each demo crashes on exactly the same frame every time. If it's showing 3D graphics, that frame will render wrong. On some demos, the music keeps playing all the way through, but not on others. If the demo has a key assigned to quit, I can quit and return to desktop.

Only exception to pattern is Hmmm, who doesn't run at all.

Passes memory test with YAART. Runs all ST(e) gem software I have lying around fine. I inspected the motherboard for anything strange, only found this clock patch:

Image

I don't know if this is a good one or not, only that the chip is SN74HCT04N.

I need to do more testing, but at this point I'm guessing DSP problem? Of course ebay seller denies all understanding :roll: He probably reads this forum, it has an exxos NVRAM fitted.

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exxos
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Re: Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by exxos » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:35 pm

Not to sound dumb... but are you actually running falcon demos ?... ones for ST/E may not run on the Falcon correctly or at all.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

KyleB
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Re: Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by KyleB » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:58 pm

Yes of course I am. I just went on google and typed "Falcon 030 demos" and found this post here:

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 69#p333938

So no ST or STE demos

EDIT: further development! Wavy video!

Just booted it up again to see if I could record a quick video of it freezing during a demo (this time Sonolumineszenz by Avena, it likes to do it on the opening fishes bit and keeps playing music all the way through), but when I reset the machine, the whole screeen is wobbling about left to right!

I don't mean like the whole solid picture is moving left to right. I mean it was wobbling like jelly. I haven't the foggiest what's going on now!



Only a phone video. It looks much worse in real life. 3 or 4 pixels worth of movement.

Second edit: reset video mode manually to 640x480 256 colour, and it went away. Can't reproduce this wobblevision mode. Don't know if this behavior is at all related to demo crashes, which occur unchanged.

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Re: Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by exxos » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:45 pm

I've never seen that with a falcon before, I would check your cable and the connectors make sure not bad connection anywhere.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

KyleB
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Re: Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by KyleB » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:00 am

I did give the video cable a good push with it turned on and made no difference, only changing mode in the menu did. All things said I'm glad I'm not the only one that's stumped.

But I don't reckon it's related to my demo crash problem.

calimero
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Re: Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by calimero » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:57 am

You can try to test SDMA with: sdmatest.prg
Download from here: http://powerphenix.com/ct60/english/Fitt_sold.htm

I also have bunch of test apps form I called "F030 sdma test used by Atari engineers" (I forget why I called this folder like this :) ).

EDIT:
I could not add zip as attachment but you can find F030TEST.ZIP at Mikro's site: https://github.com/mikrosk/clockpatch/b ... 30test.zip


Better run tests before you start to dig around motherboard!
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

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dhedberg
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Re: Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by dhedberg » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:30 am

- Does any chip run unusually hot?
- You can download our Maggie 24 intro for the Falcon030 (http://nb.atari.org/main.php?page=productions). It uses the DSP in the very first part, so if it's the DSP you will end up with a black screen and nothing more.
- Check the pins of the chips on the motherboard with a magnifier and make sure nothing is shorting pins (stuff stuck between pins).
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org. Like demos? Have a look at our new Falcon030 demo and feel the JOY.

tuxie
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Re: Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by tuxie » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:44 am

Falcons runs in Timing trouble !!

Maybe an idea to change the Clock patch! Like in Exxos Blog suggested !
+ adding a extra delay to the SDMA Chip

1. Cut the Clock trace to the sdma
2. Add a extra delay by using 2 extra pins from the clock patch and use a new wire to the DMA (dont forgett a 33ohm reisistor on the Clockpatch side)

With this you can solve problems, with this patch also my booster is working

KyleB
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Re: Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by KyleB » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:02 pm

calimero wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:57 am
You can try to test SDMA with: sdmatest.prg
Download from here: http://powerphenix.com/ct60/english/Fitt_sold.htm

I also have bunch of test apps form I called "F030 sdma test used by Atari engineers" (I forget why I called this folder like this :) ).

EDIT:
I could not add zip as attachment but you can find F030TEST.ZIP at Mikro's site: https://github.com/mikrosk/clockpatch/b ... 30test.zip


Better run tests before you start to dig around motherboard!
Ran sdmatest.prg, couldnt understand what it's supposed to do. Is it supposed to make sound output? It's in french but I can press spacebar and toggle the words "play" and "stop.

f030test.zip also baffling. One of them puts little blue lines up top and red ones below. Doesn't do anything interesting. The other prg just slowly paints green on the top half of the screen, left to right.

Forgive me but I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for.
dhedberg wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:30 am
- Does any chip run unusually hot?
- You can download our Maggie 24 intro for the Falcon030 (http://nb.atari.org/main.php?page=productions). It uses the DSP in the very first part, so if it's the DSP you will end up with a black screen and nothing more.
- Check the pins of the chips on the motherboard with a magnifier and make sure nothing is shorting pins (stuff stuck between pins).
Your intro runs completely fine. I'll look again to see any debris. I didn't see any when I had it apart, but I didn't look in detail.
tuxie wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:44 am
Falcons runs in Timing trouble !!

Maybe an idea to change the Clock patch! Like in Exxos Blog suggested !
+ adding a extra delay to the SDMA Chip

1. Cut the Clock trace to the sdma
2. Add a extra delay by using 2 extra pins from the clock patch and use a new wire to the DMA (dont forgett a 33ohm reisistor on the Clockpatch side)

With this you can solve problems, with this patch also my booster is working
I'm coming to the conclusion that there's timing problem too. It makes sense from the behavior. DSP code can run, just interacting with rest of the system gives trouble.

I can't modify the existing clock patch because all of the unused pins have been cut off. I don't mind to replace it all though, but I'm going to need a circuit diagram and something showing where to cut trace/attach to the falcon. I haven't done this kind thing before - closest I ever did was 60Hz switch on megadrive, years ago.

calimero
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:27 pm

Re: Falcon is freezing in demos

Post by calimero » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:00 pm

KyleB wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:02 pm
Ran sdmatest.prg, couldnt understand what it's supposed to do. Is it supposed to make sound output? It's in french but I can press spacebar and toggle the words "play" and "stop.

f030test.zip also baffling. One of them puts little blue lines up top and red ones below. Doesn't do anything interesting. The other prg just slowly paints green on the top half of the screen, left to right.

Forgive me but I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for.
omg.

1) sdmatest.prg - http://powerphenix.com/ct60/english/Fitt_sold.htm :

"Some problems to solve (after you updated the ABE & SDR chips) :
- You hear some audio CRACs when running SDMATEST (2KB) at 50 KHz with 4 tracks.
WORK AROUND : Solder a 27 pF capacitor parallel on the 47 ohms resistor of the SDMA clock."


:: You should not here ant CRACs from speakers

2) f030test.zip - use Google Translate (or similar) to translate LIESMICH.TXT :
DMA2DSP.PRG - should draw green lines. If there are red lines, then you have problem with DMA to DSP transfer.
REALFFT.PRG - is there only for fun. It display oscilator based on microphone input.

---

From your post I would say that you do not have problem with DSP data transfer.
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

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