520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Problems with your machine in general.
stephen_usher
Trusted Guru
Trusted Guru
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Oxford, UK.
Contact:

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by stephen_usher » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:11 pm

Yes.

I've now reverted the machine as close to stock as I can, fitted sockets in the lower bank and lifted the three 68R resistors and then reinstalled the original RAM.

No change, but at least it's a start.

I think the most important thing is to understand what triggers the MMU to start the /CAS lines in the first place.

I can see that there are at least a couple of memory reads and then some writes.

I'm wondering if I should look across the board and start 'scoping out the GLUE. If that's not putting the correct addresses on the bus then the CPU will be reading junk rather than the ROM. Having said that things change when I swap to TOS 2.06 on the dualtos board which suggests that the CPU is at least reading the first few bytes and then trying to jump into the ROM.

P.S. The only other thing I've not removed is the wire from the underneath of the MMU which is supposed to add the extra address line for the Exxos memory board. I wonder if that's causing interference.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

tzok
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:27 pm

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by tzok » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:33 pm

Do you have a logic analyzer? Have you checked if any address/data line is not stuck low or high?

User avatar
PhilC
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3641
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:22 pm

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by PhilC » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:36 pm

Is the /reset line staying high or is it cycling high and low? You mentioned fitting a reset switch IIRC. Reset behaviour should be press switch /reset goes low, then a second later goes high and stays there, the same for /halt unless something is halting the system.
If it ain't broke, test it to Destruction.

tzok
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:27 pm

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by tzok » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:49 pm

RAS and CAS lines are controlled by MMU itself. Even if it is not selected, it should issue a DRAM refresh cycles.

stephen_usher
Trusted Guru
Trusted Guru
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Oxford, UK.
Contact:

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by stephen_usher » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:56 pm

Well, that was stupid of me. I was counting the 68000 pins the wrong way! I was counting as if the chip was orientated the other way around. Doh!

This makes more sense... /RESET is never low and /BERR goes low once, briefly.

Anyway, other than the Blitter socket the machine is as close to stock as I can get it now.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

stephen_usher
Trusted Guru
Trusted Guru
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Oxford, UK.
Contact:

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by stephen_usher » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:31 pm

tzok wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:49 pm
RAS and CAS lines are controlled by MMU itself. Even if it is not selected, it should issue a DRAM refresh cycles.
That's the puzzling thing. It's generating /RAS but none of the /CAS signals, but it does in another machine.

On the other machine, which only has 512K of memory, it doesn't generate /CASH1 or /CASL1, which means these at least have to be turned on by something. I'm guessing that there's a similar mechanism for bank 0.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

stephen_usher
Trusted Guru
Trusted Guru
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Oxford, UK.
Contact:

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by stephen_usher » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:30 pm

I've now checked every address, data and control line on every RAM location, traced them down past the 74LSxxx chips to the CPU and the memory address lines down to the MMU and they all check out, so it can't be the RAM side.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

tzok
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:27 pm

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by tzok » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:47 pm

stephen_usher wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:31 pm
On the other machine, which only has 512K of memory, it doesn't generate /CASH1 or /CASL1, which means these at least have to be turned on by something. I'm guessing that there's a similar mechanism for bank 0.
One of the first things ST does after powering up is determining the memory configuration, and setting the MMU configuration register located at $FFFF8001. First two bits (counting from LSB) are Bank 0 configuration, and the next two are Bank 1 configuration: 00 = empty bank, 01 = 512kB, 10 = 2048kB.

stephen_usher
Trusted Guru
Trusted Guru
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Oxford, UK.
Contact:

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by stephen_usher » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:12 pm

tzok wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:47 pm
stephen_usher wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:31 pm
On the other machine, which only has 512K of memory, it doesn't generate /CASH1 or /CASL1, which means these at least have to be turned on by something. I'm guessing that there's a similar mechanism for bank 0.
One of the first things ST does after powering up is determining the memory configuration, and setting the MMU configuration register located at $FFFF8001. First two bits (counting from LSB) are Bank 0 configuration, and the next two are Bank 1 configuration: 00 = empty bank, 01 = 512kB, 10 = 2048kB.
Thanks, so it's obviously not getting that far.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

stephen_usher
Trusted Guru
Trusted Guru
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Oxford, UK.
Contact:

Re: 520STFM: After replacing memory: White screen of death.

Post by stephen_usher » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:15 pm

The data bus on the CPU side of the 74LS244's is VERY noisy.
e.g.
IMG_2030.jpg
IMG_2030.jpg (86.08 KiB) Viewed 187 times
IMG_2031.jpg
IMG_2031.jpg (84.81 KiB) Viewed 187 times
If you notice some of that noise actually goes above the TTL 0/1 transition voltage.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

Post Reply

Return to “HARDWARE ISSUES”