Work around defective mmu cas1l

Problems with your machine in general.
Post Reply
bofr123
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:44 am

Work around defective mmu cas1l

Post by bofr123 »

Hello.
I am not much for asking for help since i like to figure things out on my own (and also I'm antisocial as fk).
But in this case I figure it might be smarter to see if anyone would have a super smart idea :)

Anyway, long story short. Got a 520st for cheap. Turned out to be a bit of a lemon.
Chucked the most excellent diagrom in the machine, one of the dram chips was intermittent and finally died.
Though "to hell with it" and got rid of all the old dram-chips and replaced them with a shiny new 4mb fpm module.
Everything looked ok but it still would not work correctly.

Further poking around showed that cas1l really isn't working correctly. There is some activity but not at all like the other lines.
Looks like the refresh isn't going out that pin.

So.
Option 1, put in sram instead (on the memory side of the address bus), the only other thing that could fight for access to to the data bus would be the shifter. So I'm thinking that I keep the sram enabled in read-mode unless write OR shifter goes into read.
Should work? (i'll have to capture the address from MAD when it is strobed out and select which bank based on which ras is active)

Option 2, keep the dram and somehow work around the defective cas1l, maybe check the address bit for odd/even and implement an extra refresh-
2b. It looks like the actual selects on cas1l are working, so maybe find a way to see if the mmu is in a refresh cycle, in which case, copy cas1h, let the real selects through.

Option 3. get a new mmu ;)
Obviously the most logical solution. Also the least satisfying. And most expensive. Got plenty of everything else I would need. No spare mmu.

Thoughts or insights?
User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 23780
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Work around defective mmu cas1l

Post by exxos »

I don't know what upgrade you put in, of course 4MB needs MAD9 connected.. Also any defective RAM is normally ignored by TOS anyway.. that *is* the workaround for bad RAM.
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10623
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: Work around defective mmu cas1l

Post by rubber_jonnie »

Photos of the upgrades always help, so please post some if you have them.

My 520 ST had bad RAM because of a failed piggy back upgrade, and despite removing it all and replacing with good ram I could never get it to work.

In the end I removed the RAM completely and used one of exxos MMU/Shifter plug in upgrades. They totally remove the possibility of many PCB problems as they don't use the original PCB.

As for the MMU/GLUE etch, I would suggest that before doing so you look at tweaking the sockets as per my post here: https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/forum/viewt ... ilit=tweak

Also clean the chip pins with IPA as a minimum, and spray Electrolube or Deoxit on the sockets before reinserting the chips.

If there are other socketed chips you may want to remove/clean/spray before going on, as bad contacts can cause a lot of problems.

Personally I've had more than a few dead GLUE chips, but never an MMU, so you may want to hold onto your cash until you have a diagnosis that says it's dead.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
bofr123
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:44 am

Re: Work around defective mmu cas1l

Post by bofr123 »

Thanks guys for not humoring me and asking some basic questions before going into technical details.
Forced me to take a step back and think about the basics.
I THOUGHT that I tested and doublechecked everything. But looking back I realized that this was at 4 am and the only reason I was doing this so early was that I could not sleep and was already suffering from sleep deprivation.
All things not good for soldering tiny wires.

So I tested everything again and would you know it. A microscopic solder bridge between two of the cas-pins on the simm.
Fixed it and started the machine up. 2048kB of very functional ram. (I guess the diagrom only sees the first 2 megs since its based on the amiga version, will see if the rest shows up when i get into tos proper)

Btw i followed this guide
http://pest.atari.org/www.logicsays.com ... emproc.htm
kinda.

I'm gonna do a post later when the machine is totally finished.

Fixed so far:
  • Reset circuit, bad solder joint.
  • Reset button totally broken.
  • Rom sockets intermittent, replaced with two very low profile 32-pin mods so that i can use normal eprom.
  • One of the latches for the memory was broken.
  • One broken dram-chip (all now replaced with this single 72 pin stick)
  • External floppy drive really gunky and half broken, replaced with external gotek.
  • Many broken traces on keyboard
  • One big hole! in the keyboard (used uv-curing resin to patch that up)
  • Bad connection all around on socketed chips, cleaned up using a pencil eraser and ipa.
  • A whole bunch of very suspicious solder joints that needed refreshing.
  • And most likely more that I cant remember.

To do:
  • ide-interface (going with p putniks old and very simple design)
  • rgb2hdmi
  • ..and probably a dozen other stupid small fixes..
User avatar
DoG
Posts: 1130
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Work around defective mmu cas1l

Post by DoG »

Good find about the small solder bridge. Can be hard to spot sometimes when you've been tinkering for a while.
User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 23780
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Work around defective mmu cas1l

Post by exxos »

bofr123 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:17 pm Btw i followed this guide
http://pest.atari.org/www.logicsays.com ... emproc.htm
kinda.
ah... I have a feeling there are some mistakes in that page, someone did point them out to me some years ago but I forgot the page was even still up..And I remember offhand if mistakes were corrected or not.. I thought it was something with the RAS/CAS lines but looks correct at a glance anyway..


EDIT:

Check against this...

simm.png
simm.png (353.72 KiB) Viewed 2183 times
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
bofr123
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:44 am

Re: Work around defective mmu cas1l

Post by bofr123 »

I checked the pinout backwards and forwards when trying to figure out the problem. Against the real datasheet for the simm no less.
It should be correct.
There might have been an error in the past but not now.
But I guess a lot of confusion is from the fact that the guide labels the pins as they are named by atari. Which is not exactly what is normally used.
The datasheet for the simm had a very helpful diagram showing which line went to which chip and it all checked out correctly.
But I'll check against the schematic you posted tomorrow (thx!).

Actually kindof a shame it works now, I kinda really wanted to hack together a sram based monstrosity ;)
Post Reply

Return to “HARDWARE ISSUES”