non-socketed CPU

Help & information about the STE V1 booster.
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exxos
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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by exxos » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:58 am

IngoQ wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:41 am
Okay thanks. For me not a way to go anyways, since it would most likely be too ugly, not to mention the soldering issues. And I surely don't want to do a lottery, since this would be most likely irreversible.
Yes, the odds of something going wrong are pretty high.. not a "safe" gamble.
IngoQ wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:41 am
So to sum it up:

If you have a STE with SMT mount CPU, you are pretty much screwed.
Yes :(
IngoQ wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:41 am
If you remove your CPU and replace it with a PLCC socket, you COULD make a adapter PCB for the STE booster. You would need to adapt a PLCC plug to the "funky" staggered PGA layout originally used on the STEs CPU-socket (and therefore mirrored on the current STE booster). PLCC plugs are around 30-40 EUR, so this solution will be expensive. In addition the height of PLCC-socket + PLCC-plug + adapter PCB + Booster might not fit under the STEs shielding.

If one day there is a pluggable STE booster, you could just use that after socketing your CPU of course.
Basically yes. As most can't even solder the booster kit itself (even being pretty easy) people doing more advanced stuff like this isn't going to end well.

I've done several repairs to bodged STE booster fittings so far.. That is "easy" through hole stuff.. removing SMT chips and soldering thin cables on small pads.. it just isn't going to end well. Its something I myself wouldn't feel comfortable doing.
IngoQ wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:41 am
In any way, there is no no-soldering-solution, since the original CPU has to be removed.
Correct.
IngoQ wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:41 am
Did I forget anything?
I was developing the plug in STE booster. Though again really this came down to people can't solder well enough. It would be better just for people to send me their motherboard to fit, rather than myself spending the next 6 months developing another booster. There is not only the time involved, but the costs.

Though this doubles back onto the main problem that machines can't be upgraded easily. As you know there is the solder in booster, the plug in booster, then some other combo booster for the SMT CPU peoples. thats basically 3 of the same thing.. its not a good use of time to do things like that.

Again, its why I started on a new motherboard, OK its not STE, likely never will. But there has to be a starting point somewhere. If people want the upgraded machines, they buy the new motherboard with the addons, if they want to keep their original machine running then I offer repair guides and kits. So both sets of people are happy. It solves all the constant issues of fitting etc. So that is basically what I am spending my free time on and working towards. Basically I am not really looking to develop upgrades for original machines anymore due to said reasons.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
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Maeke
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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by Maeke » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:58 am

One thing, the socket is included in exxos's funky plcc adapter. So no, you won't need 30-40€ for this.
If i take too long to reply, sorry my cat is sleeping on my laps.

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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by exxos » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:04 pm

Maeke wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:58 am
One thing, the socket is included in exxos's funky plcc adapter. So no, you won't need 30-40€ for this.
Probably in this case, re-using a original socket would be better. Though the blitter kit is a good option.

I suppose I could change the funky pinout on the STE booster to the proper PLCC pinout, then a upside down socket could be used. Though again, its a lot of time and cost in producing the same thing again, and I don't have much of either :roll:
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by IngoQ » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:09 pm

Maeke wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:58 am
One thing, the socket is included in exxos's funky plcc adapter. So no, you won't need 30-40€ for this.
Yes, but it is a socket, not a plug. You would need a SMT socket on the board and a PLCC plug on the booster (or in this case the adapter). The plug is the expensive part.

Or am I missing something?
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by Maeke » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:34 pm

no, you just use the socket soldered on the booster like amigaers do.

Edit nah, wouldn't work with the stock cpu still there, you need a dummy cpu.
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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by IngoQ » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:51 pm

Okay, maybe I do not give up that easily ;)

This could be a way:
  • Desoldering the CPU and placing a regular PLCC68-socket instead. I sincerely hope the pads are standard layout, otherwise this will be a very short exercise.
  • Taking a PLCC68 plug with straight pinout and solder that on exxos' funky PLCC adapter. This would result in a PLCC plug with "funky" layout.
  • This assy could afterwards be soldered to the STE booster with funky layout.
Disadvantages:
  • A lot of difficult soldering
  • height gain of about the thickness of the PLCC plug + funky adapter + some space to avoid shortages
  • mechanical stress on PLCC sockets SMT pads (could be reduced with vinyl stands)
  • costs
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by DrF » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:44 pm

The only thing I have seen is the Amiga guys, basically gluing a upside down socket ontop of the CPU and running things that way.
That can get a tad flaky :lol:
Then bits of tape, cable ties and cardboard start coming out.

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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by exxos » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:31 am

IngoQ wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:51 pm
Okay, maybe I do not give up that easily ;)
If you are looking to fit the booster, I think the "best" way would be to solder the dummy CPU and use a upside down PLCC socket (one of the original Atari ones would probably be best option. Of course you would need to verify the upside down socket would contact on the dummy CPU first and work out some way to secure it (probably hot glue gun it). I think that is probably the best direction to go down.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by IngoQ » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:49 pm

Really? Even over the socket/socket plug solution? What am I not seeing?

For me the biggest disadvantages of the dummy solution would be:
  • I believe it is much harder to solder. When soldering in a PLCC socket you can always resort to the method shown here:
    But with a dummy cpu you will have to use hot air, and can not inspect you soldering, since the solder points are located under the chip
  • It is pretty much irreversible, since the only way back to the original system would be desoldering the dummy and resoldering the original CPU.
So, what am I missing?

(Wow, inline youtube.... :thumbup: did not expect that)
Ingo :geek:

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Re: non-socketed CPU

Post by exxos » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:57 pm

IngoQ wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:49 pm
Really? Even over the socket/socket plug solution? What am I not seeing?
Point being, your overall idea was to fit the booster ? The socket solution would be better *if* I had a plug in booster, which I do not. So this rules out the socket ideas totally as there is nothing to plug into it.

So if you wanted to use my current boosters, your only option would be to solder the "funky" PLCC socket onto the booster, then the only solution after is to use the dummy CPU so the PLCC would plug ontop of the IC.
IngoQ wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:49 pm
(Wow, inline youtube.... :thumbup: did not expect that)
Added about a hour ago :)
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

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