Page 7 of 9

Re: Carridge keys and emulation

Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:00 pm
by troed
Over the next week I have a bunch of cartridges on their way in. Started today, with Cubase Audio and C-Lab Creator.
cubase_audio_top.jpg
cubase_audio_top.jpg (104.44 KiB) Viewed 895 times
cubase_audio_bottom.jpg
cubase_audio_bottom.jpg (91.11 KiB) Viewed 895 times
The C-Lab cartridge seems to be a single piece of plastic, filled with black epoxy resin, exposing only the cartridge connector. I only know of fully destructive ways of getting around that, so maybe that's where I'll go.

/Troed

Re: Carridge keys and emulation

Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 9:01 pm
by Tomswork
Very interesting picture the schmatic will tell an interesting story

Tom

Re: Carridge keys and emulation

Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 9:14 pm
by troed
Alright, chemical warfare it is.

C-Lab Creator key:
c_lab_creator.jpg
c_lab_creator.jpg (132.55 KiB) Viewed 883 times
/Troed

Re: Carridge keys and emulation

Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 9:16 pm
by Tomswork
EP600.pdf
(224.64 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
Yes about the only way and hot air helps
I have seen this design before rtc ram chip on top a simple pal or rom

It's a older epld

Tom

Re: Carridge keys and emulation

Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 10:30 pm
by troed
... and, done.
c_lab_creator_exposed_top.JPG
c_lab_creator_exposed_top.JPG (102.32 KiB) Viewed 872 times
c_lab_creator_exposed_bottom.JPG.JPG
c_lab_creator_exposed_bottom.JPG.JPG (124.07 KiB) Viewed 872 times
/Troed

Re: Cartridge keys and emulation

Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 10:43 pm
by Tomswork
Good job on the clean up.

Tom

Re: Cartridge keys and emulation

Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:56 pm
by troed
Thanks.

So the C-Lab epld seems to be hooked up pretty much like the Steinberg 'A' key. A1-A8 and D9-D15, UDS ... but, instead of connecing UDS directly to CLK it routes to an input pin and then has its own connection from an output to CLK2. This is a method I've used myself in a GAL project.

I have not verified if this epld has any hidden registers yet. It does not have a specific OE pin.

Code: Select all

#1 CLK1 -> ROM4
#2 I/O -> A7
#3 I/O -> N/C (sic!)
#4 I/O -> A6
#5 I/O -> A5
#6 I/O -> A4
#7 I/O -> A3
#8 I/O -> ROM3
#9 I/O -> A2
#10 I/O -> #13 CLK2 (internal connection)
#11 INPUT -> A1
#12 GND -> GND

#13 CLK2 -> #10 I/O
#14 INPUT -> UDS
#15 I/O -> D9
#16 I/O -> D8
#17 I/O -> D11
#18 I/O -> D10
#19 I/O -> D13
#20 I/O -> D12
#21 I/O -> D15
#22 I/O -> D14
#23 INPUT -> A8
#24 VCC -> VCC
From this follows that they're likely using ROM4 as OE, ROM3 as some input, UDS to clock an internal equation that in turn clock itself using CLK2. The datasheet seems to say that CLK1 and CLK2 clock only some parts each but I haven't studied that in detail yet. Otherwise it's the same one byte of address and one byte of data.

/Troed

Re: Cartridge keys and emulation

Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 12:05 am
by Tomswork
Troed

I let my coworker take a look at the cubase cartridge he says it looks like a programmable cpu out of a microwave

Tom

Re: Cartridge keys and emulation

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:08 am
by czietz
From the style of the case and the style of the marking, the chip in the Cubase dongle looks very much like OKI to me. See https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/e2kAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg for a comparison. This doesn't help much, though. OKI had a lot of mask programmed microcontrollers.

Re: Cartridge keys and emulation

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:50 pm
by troed
Just a keep-alive post to let everybody know that this is still happening. Got sidetracked with the H4 build on the somewhat less retro time I've had for a few weeks again.
dongles.JPG
dongles.JPG (101.57 KiB) Viewed 441 times
Also, I've been in communication with someone (who will stay anonymous until they decide themselves not to) that have already managed to not only extract tables from a Cubase 2 dongle but get all the way to equations that work perfectly fine programmed into a clone GAL16V8. This again is validation that all the "v1" dongles we can be sure will be successfully made available for emulation.

/Troed