When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

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Steve
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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by Steve »

Yeah I think the thread went a little off-topic when people started to talk about normal upgrades, where as the original question was about FPGA replacements for multiple chips.

It's kind of like cars isn't it? Old-school mechanics hate newer cars because everything is electronic and you can hardly do any servicing yourself and will often require taking it to the dealer. It's the same with my Ataris, if something goes wrong I like how I can find the problem chip etc, replace it and have it working again. Where as if it was entirely an FPGA, if the chip dies, that's it - it is totally dead. Or if something is wrong with the logic, you can't fix it unless you're a wizz programmer, effectively having to wait for the 'car dealer' or people who make the cores to fix the problem.

I think the machine loses it's soul when FPGA comes into it. It is the same with my retro PC. I love 3dfx Glide graphics for my old games, I like to play them on original hardware. It's not the same using a Glide wrapper on a modern system.
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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by mikro »

Yeah, I guess there's something to that 'analog feeling'. I'd even say that more analog = more attention it gets. It's a very subjective observation but look how many accessories/addons are here for the 8-bits, STs and Falcon. Except the recent CT60e (which I'm hesitant to label as 'new') it's been 15 (!) years since the last Falcon hardware, the SuperVidel, was announced.
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exxos
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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by exxos »

Shifter is of course a problem as less and less TV's support low ST resolutions. Though FPGA means code can be changed in future, and likely be alternative FPGA's over the years so in that respect FPGA is the only way forward. Even if breaks some tiny amount of software, as alternative is 100% compatible ST with no monitors to use it.

People like Wolfgang creating suska working on compatible cores, if community finds issues, he can update them. But his problem is nobody helping test anything... but as said before, I will start simple and test blitter first, shouldn't be any issues there, but will make sure 100% works before replacing other chips like MMU.
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Darklord
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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by Darklord »

exxos wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:09 pm But if your whole STacy circuit was a "one chip wonder" in FPGA, is it still a STacy then ?
Yeah, that causes more head-scratching. :)

What if that same "one chip wonder" was then put into an original STacy
case? Would anyone know the difference if they didn't open it up? :)

I know people are going to yell at me but that's one reason I sold my MiST.
Technically innovative and amazing, it just wasn't an ST to me. :(
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exxos
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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by exxos »

Darklord wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:43 am Yeah, that causes more head-scratching. :)

What if that same "one chip wonder" was then put into an original STacy
case? Would anyone know the difference if they didn't open it up? :)

I know people are going to yell at me but that's one reason I sold my MiST.
Technically innovative and amazing, it just wasn't an ST to me. :(
It it was made with a "one chip wonder" and it was replaced by another "one chip wonder" then I be happy to say its the same.

I think to me, the ST's soul is part of it uses a Motorola 68000, YM sound chip etc. Of course it has custom Atari chips, though have to be replaced with FPGA if we want upgrades, or indeed able to use it on modern TVs as the "old ST" design is, as we know, problematic in terms of video.

Maybe it would be better to say its a evolution of the ST rather than "original". I mean Falcon is totally different machine, but mostly evolution of ST design.

My new ST project will be between the ST and Falcon, maybe call "STX" ( ST Extra, not STE, as already exists ). So may or may not be a "true ST" depends how people look at it, but if its a evolution of design, then can be classed as a "new ST". Because of course it is.
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viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
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Darklord
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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by Darklord »

I'm surprisingly good with that. :)
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