When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

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exxos
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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by exxos » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:01 pm

So if we put a F1 engine into a mini, is it still a mini ?
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by dhedberg » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:02 pm

Does anyone know how compatible the Suska is? Does anyone here own one, or know anyone who owns one?
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org. Like demos? Have a look at our new Falcon030 demo and feel the JOY.

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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by exxos » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:04 pm

dhedberg wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:02 pm
Does anyone know how compatible the Suska is? Does anyone here own one, or know anyone who owns one?
I never heard of anyone owning one.. The chips are supposed to be 100% compatible.. but only way to know, is to build them one by one and throw everything under the sun at it...
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by dhedberg » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:35 pm

exxos wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:04 pm
dhedberg wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:02 pm
Does anyone know how compatible the Suska is? Does anyone here own one, or know anyone who owns one?
I never heard of anyone owning one.. The chips are supposed to be 100% compatible.. but only way to know, is to build them one by one and throw everything under the sun at it...
I'd love to play around with one. I saw they're selling for 499 EUR (tax included) now. Still a bit too much without knowing how compatible it is.
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org. Like demos? Have a look at our new Falcon030 demo and feel the JOY.

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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by Gargoyle » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:50 pm

I'd thought of getting a Suska at one point years ago too, but it is quite a bit of money without knowing if it really does live up it's claim.

Some more thoughts on this. An ST is perhaps not an ST when it is based on an FPGA CPU capable of emulating 50 other cores. That's something else I was thinking of earlier, I think with your project it would be best to focus 100% on ST only even if you went the FPGA route. Make it the most compatible and smooth running recreation of an ST there is, but only focus on that, rather than some projects we are seeing where you can then jump ship and make it into a speccy, megadrive or an Amiga. You practically should implement an electric shock to stop people if they even try it. That for me is also a very telling, almost dead giveaway that something is not an ST and only pretending to be one.

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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by exxos » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:26 am

dhedberg wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:35 pm
I'd love to play around with one. I saw they're selling for 499 EUR (tax included) now. Still a bit too much without knowing how compatible it is.
Yeah .. I'm half tempted to get one to mess about with it... Its supposed to be a 100% clone.. As I'm plotting to go FPGA with some chips then it would make sense to get the full thing to play with..
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by stephen_usher » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:19 pm

DrF wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:31 pm
Adding the blitter to the STFM is not how it came out the factory, so is it now a STE or a upgraded STFM?
Well, considering that it was only the 260ST and 520ST{F}{M} didn't have the blitter, the 1040ST{F}{M} did have one, it's still an STFM, just with the option installed.

As for replacing the chips with FPGAs, I would suggest that if the main circuit board is the same then it's still the original machine, but with modifications, as the bulk of the system is original.
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ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by troed » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:17 pm

stephen_usher wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:19 pm
it was only the 260ST and 520ST{F}{M} didn't have the blitter, the 1040ST{F}{M} did have one, it's still an STFM, just with the option installed.
Umm no. Some STF(M) motherboard revisions do have solder pads for a blitter, but no socket, and the same motherboards were used for both 520 and 1040 just with different amounts of RAM populated.

The Mega STs are the ones where early versions had a blitter socket, but not populated, but all later models came with the blitter preinstalled.

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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by DrF » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:19 pm

exxos wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:01 pm
So if we put a F1 engine into a mini, is it still a mini ?
My view totally different engine/heart then no it not really a mini is it.
Tuned up old mini engine still a mini?

Same argument could go for a old style 020 cpu card from way back then, in which case a new style 020/030/040 what ever card would be the same.

This is very confusing, im confused easily as it is, I use OutLook Express I don't need this pressure in my life :lol:

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Re: When is a ST not a ST anymore ?

Post by dhedberg » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:47 pm

For me the most important thing is that there is a hardware configuration that achieves 100% compatibility with official Atari computer models, otherwise one could just as well use an emulator or the MIST. So if you plan to recreate the STe, it should run everything that the real thing does, or at least I wouldn't be interested. But I totally understand that others may think differently.

If it's possible to enable enhancements/add-ons (that could have an impact on compatibility) it's a bonus as long as there's a 100% compatibility mode. Whether this recreation is using FPGAs, software emulation, a combination, or something else I'm not bothered with.

I like watching old demos on real hardware and the challenge of programming demos on stock machines! :-)
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org. Like demos? Have a look at our new Falcon030 demo and feel the JOY.

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