Scope recommendation

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IngoQ
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Scope recommendation

Post by IngoQ » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:42 pm

Hi,

I am looking for a scope for my workbench. Main use will be of course work on old hardware. I would like to visualise noise in power supplies, clock signals and video signals. Since I am not likely to earn money with it, money is a factor :)

I have a PC on my bench, so a pc based solution would be an option, if it had any advantages.

Does anyone have recommendations and/or experiences that could be helpful?
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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Re: Scope recommendation

Post by Atarian Computing » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:42 pm

Even a used analog scope would probably work for you.

A used Rigol DS1102E would be good.

For new models I'd say Hantek DSO5000 series is best bang for buck.

The best quality "budget" scope is the Rigol DS1054z

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exxos
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Re: Scope recommendation

Post by exxos » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:22 pm

I know Rodolphe uses a expensive USB version, can't say what that is like. Though I know there are cheap versions about which either do not work properly, or the software is unstable.

Dave Jones has a good video on scope "ins and outs". Basically all the cheaper scopes, mostly USB ones claim fantastic specs, but they are just so rubbish its unreal.






When I got my scope, Rigol DS1052E, it cost somewhere around £300. If you look up the specs for that, you don't want anything less if you are going to be doing any serious work.

https://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-DS1052 ... s1052e.htm

Its a few years old now, I'm sure if you shop around you could find something better spec for maybe cheaper. That one you can flash the firmware into the next model up (costing £300 more) ;)

I couldn't have found all the bugs on the ST motherboards without it. Cheaper scopes would have simply missed the faults in the signals. I had trouble even capturing them with the scope, needed way more sample memory, higher speeds, needed the lot :lol: Mostly it was pressing stop/go a million times until I just happened to capture the faults. Was a bit of a leap of faith there as well, but I managed to capture them in the end.

For me, its more practial to have a bench scope than a PC based one. Which ever you decide to go for, do not go for a spec less than the DS1052 has.. not if you want to do any soft of serious debugging. Cheaper scopes will basically "lie" to you.
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rpineau
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Re: Scope recommendation

Post by rpineau » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:21 am

I use a Saleae Logic Pro 16 ( https://www.saleae.com/ ) that can do some analog stuff. I like the logic analyzer part but for a pure oscilloscope I would go with a Rigol and reflash it (that's one of my near future plan :) ).
As exxos said, my logic pro 16 is not cheap .. but when developing the 68020 card it proved unvaluable :)
And it's so much better than the cheap stuff with crappy software (me and exxos tried a few).
RoRo

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IngoQ
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Re: Scope recommendation

Post by IngoQ » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:10 am

Thanks guys, that was exactly the feedback I had hoped for :)

I thought of a used analog one before, but it might be simply a lack of space that prevents me from going that route. Besides the obvious disadvantages like lacking one-shot-capabilities, etc.

So my options seem to be:
  • Rigol DS1052E (50 MHz) - 321 € new (Amazon)
  • Rigol DS1102E (100 MHz) - 339 € new (Amazon)
  • Hantek DSO5102B (100 MHz) - 250€ new (Amazon)
Specwise all three are quite close: 2 Channels, 1GS/s, 1M sample memory...

Since the price difference between the two Rigols is minimal, I would perhaps make no sense to go for the 50MHz one, 1GS/s should be sufficient for 100Mhz as well (yes, I watched Daves videos ;) ). The Hantek one is a lot cheaper, and I like, that it has a much larger display. So I probably tend to that...

I would love to buy used, but there are none, appearantly people are satisified with them, once they have them ;)
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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Re: Scope recommendation

Post by Atarian Computing » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:23 am

IngoQ wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:10 am
Thanks guys, that was exactly the feedback I had hoped for :)

I thought of a used analog one before, but it might be simply a lack of space that prevents me from going that route. Besides the obvious disadvantages like lacking one-shot-capabilities, etc.

So my options seem to be:
  • Rigol DS1052E (50 MHz) - 321 € new (Amazon)
  • Rigol DS1102E (100 MHz) - 339 € new (Amazon)
  • Hantek DSO5102B (100 MHz) - 250€ new (Amazon)
Specwise all three are quite close: 2 Channels, 1GS/s, 1M sample memory...

Since the price difference between the two Rigols is minimal, I would perhaps make no sense to go for the 50MHz one, 1GS/s should be sufficient for 100Mhz as well (yes, I watched Daves videos ;) ). The Hantek one is a lot cheaper, and I like, that it has a much larger display. So I probably tend to that...

I would love to buy used, but there are none, appearantly people are satisified with them, once they have them ;)
Of these 3 I would definitely go for the Hantek. It actually is a very good scope for the price.

Josh.

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exxos
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Re: Scope recommendation

Post by exxos » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:04 am

Larger screen is always good :)
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Re: Scope recommendation

Post by tfhh » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:33 pm

Hi,
IngoQ wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:10 am
  • Rigol DS1052E (50 MHz) - 321 € new (Amazon)
  • Rigol DS1102E (100 MHz) - 339 € new (Amazon)
  • Hantek DSO5102B (100 MHz) - 250€ new (Amazon)
I would strongly recommend the Rigol DS1102E. The price difference between the "50 MHz" and "100 MHz" version are too less, and newer firmware versions prevent you from illegal patching the DS1052E to a DS1102E (there´s really no difference... only different firmware and label).

The DS1102E is at my home for over three years. Nearly all other Atari 8-Bit developer I know of have also this model - also very recommended at a lot of hobby tinkerer forums. It´s easy to use, has a good and bright display, good analytic functions, two channels with seperate trigger input and - mostly never regarded - the probes are high quality!

So take a Rigol and have fun :D

Jurgen

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IngoQ
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Re: Scope recommendation

Post by IngoQ » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:19 pm

You make a strong point there... I have found LOTS of reviews, experiences and even tutorials for the Rigols... There's a lot of stuff for the Hantek as well, but mainly it's about hacking, which I am not interested in. Dave seems not to be impressed that much as well:



So maybe the Rigol is more playing on the safe side ... And regarding the probes: Yes, that's a point, too.
Ingo :geek:

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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Re: Scope recommendation

Post by exxos » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:46 pm

IngoQ wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:19 pm
You make a strong point there... I have found LOTS of reviews, experiences and even tutorials for the Rigols... There's a lot of stuff for the Hantek as well, but mainly it's about hacking, which I am not interested in. Dave seems not to be impressed that much as well:

So maybe the Rigol is more playing on the safe side ... And regarding the probes: Yes, that's a point, too.
:shock: That scope would be a epic fail for me then. Those bad ringing waveforms he sees, thats what I am mostly seeing and debugging with Atari stuff, if the scope was doing that for every signal, I wouldn't stand a chance to debug actual signals as by that video, every signal would have ringing, good or not.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

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