Sad day: I'm having to "upgrade" from MiNT 1.12...

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stephen_usher
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Oxford, UK.
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Re: Sad day: I'm having to "upgrade" from MiNT 1.12...

Post by stephen_usher » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:14 pm

I'm glad that you're not taking this as a personal argument. :) "You really had to be there at the time."

If you want to know precisely what I think the mis-steps in the development were, well:
  • Removing the ability to quit back to the desktop. From what I remember of this, Frank didn't want to maintain the code which saved and then copied the machine state back again. He didn't see why anyone would want to and hence it was a waste of space and time.
  • Forcing MiNT to start from the AUTO folder rather than after the Desktop had started. I seem to remember that this change was something to do with wanting to replace AES and hence not wanting the Desktop already "running".
  • Moving to require XHDI complient hard disk drivers for non-Atari-FAT filesystems. At the time I believe that the only driver to support this was HDDriver which was difficult to get hold of outside of Germany, or at least it was in the UK. It was also expensive at the time especially before "retro computing" was a thing.
For all this, though you have to remember that during this main period of the late 90s and very early noughties there was basically no retro scene and Atari users were few and far between. MiNT users were probably restricted to only a few people outside of the core developer gang, so they were developing for themselves basically. Why *would* they want to think wider in that case? So, this inward looking design is quite understandable.

P.S. As for the virtual consoles being a "hack", it wasn't really. It's all that can be done when you're using the Atari Shifter. The whole of MiNT is a "hack" if that's the case (which it was originally when I joined the project in 1990/91).
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

mikro
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:22 pm

Re: Sad day: I'm having to "upgrade" from MiNT 1.12...

Post by mikro » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:15 am

You are right - I wasn't there. Actually I'm still not there ;), I'm just helping guys with some infrastructure.

If you would like to discuss ideas / features, maybe it's worth signing up in the new ML: https://sourceforge.net/p/freemint/mail ... t-discuss/

There isn't many people left and any help is more than welcome. :)

Steve
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Sad day: I'm having to "upgrade" from MiNT 1.12...

Post by Steve » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 am

I'm glad people work on Mint, to be honest it is the main reason I still use and enjoy my old Atari machines.
Falcon ct60e 060 - 256mb ram - phantom bus and dsp accel // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - Ati Mach64 2mb // Atari STM 4160 - 4MB ram - 16Mhz exxos 1.5 booster - Ultrasatan

stephen_usher
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Oxford, UK.
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Re: Sad day: I'm having to "upgrade" from MiNT 1.12...

Post by stephen_usher » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:45 pm

mikro wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:15 am
You are right - I wasn't there. Actually I'm still not there ;), I'm just helping guys with some infrastructure.

If you would like to discuss ideas / features, maybe it's worth signing up in the new ML: https://sourceforge.net/p/freemint/mail ... t-discuss/

There isn't many people left and any help is more than welcome. :)
:-)

Do you know if the compiler tool chain etc. will run under MiNT natively? i.e. Can you develop on the real hardware still?

I know the few people who are keeping Linux m68k seem to be cross-compiling and then running on emulated hardware. The kernels that they're producing don't seem to work on a real Atari any more. At least the latest one I downloaded and tried couldn't drive the TT display even though the "atafb" device driver was supposedly compiled into the kernel.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

mikro
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:22 pm

Re: Sad day: I'm having to "upgrade" from MiNT 1.12...

Post by mikro » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:31 pm

stephen_usher wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:45 pm
Do you know if the compiler tool chain etc. will run under MiNT natively? i.e. Can you develop on the real hardware still?
Absolutely. gcc 7.x is quite slower than the ancient 2.95 but it does work.
I know the few people who are keeping Linux m68k seem to be cross-compiling and then running on emulated hardware. The kernels that they're producing don't seem to work on a real Atari any more. At least the latest one I downloaded and tried couldn't drive the TT display even though the "atafb" device driver was supposedly compiled into the kernel.
Not sure about TT but I know that not only the kernel but also X does run on the Falcon, even with CT60 and SuperVidel. I know a guy who has a pretty recent Debian up and running with some window manager.

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