TOS105 ROM

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Petari
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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by Petari » Tue May 29, 2018 10:06 am

OPS. I was too optimistic. So, you basically want to test other features. No problems. Will continue in PM.
In any case, would be good to clarify that about TOS 1.62 work with long stackfame and at least 68010.
I messed little in Hatari 2.0 - needed to change TOS v. in header, and it crashes when should start AES, Desktop - when CPU is set to 68010.
Real HW test would be better, for sure.
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IngoQ
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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by IngoQ » Tue May 29, 2018 10:13 am

Okay, so no PAK-support at the moment, but the STE booster in its current version, which is basically an overclocked 68000 running at 32MHz should work anyways, or am I wrong?
Ingo :geek:

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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by exxos » Tue May 29, 2018 10:42 am

IngoQ wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:13 am
Okay, so no PAK-support at the moment, but the STE booster in its current version, which is basically an overclocked 68000 running at 32MHz should work anyways, or am I wrong?
The booster won't care about TOS version. The STE GLUE logic takes care of decoding TOS206 space. PP is (I think ) talking about patching TOS for better 020 support ?

Though the STFM boosters won't care either, they are all 68000, can run TOS104 or TOS206 address space. Support for 020 in TOS104 would be interesting. Really to use TOS104 with 020 CPU, so faster ROM access (32bit) also can make use of caches in 020/030.

It is a little offtopic at this point, but my 68SEC000 CPU is wired up almost like a 020, so once the new design is done, adapting it for a 020 shouldn't be much of a problem. Could even have both CPU's on the same board! Of course TOS206 is needed for 020/030 at the moment which causes some software issues.. but TOS104 would be better compatible. 020 more effective core (faster) also offer 32bit (which shouldn't break anything over 16bit) it also has instruction cache which I believe doesn't upset self modifying code. So 020 is best compatible CPU with TOS104. 030 is also possible, but only really brings data cache to the table (ok I should say only thing of interest for me) and it break self modifying code. So as always each change results in worse compatibility. Though 020 on TOS104 would be next logical step for my work..
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

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IngoQ
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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by IngoQ » Tue May 29, 2018 10:48 am

Thanks. What about hacking the DualTOS board to a QuadTOS board? Would that make sense, or is it easier creating a new one?

Generally speaking, it would seem handy, when testing all these new and nice TOS versions of Peter ;)
Ingo :geek:

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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by exxos » Tue May 29, 2018 10:53 am

IngoQ wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:48 am
Thanks. What about hacking the DualTOS board to a QuadTOS board? Would that make sense, or is it easier creating a new one?

Generally speaking, it would seem handy, when testing all these new and nice TOS versions of Peter ;)
It would be better to create new flash board.. but as always.. I don't have time to work on it :(

I don't know if theres a 8MB 16bit ROM.. might be same pinout just with extra address line.. though think I looked before and they are all 3.3V..
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by Petari » Tue May 29, 2018 11:02 am

Here is one thing what may be problem at high clock rates and overall high speed of SW run with 1.62 :
timing of disk access is done with simple countdown of some data register, and it will be of course shorter at higher clock. So, we will know after tests how far it can go without problems - or if no problems, that will mean that we need faster boosters :lol: (just kidding).
This is the reason why they changed timing to C-Timer based in TOS 2.05/6 . But it causes incompatibility with some SW. So, if there will be problems on higher clocks, I need to change some values in floppy code . Or even to do same solution, what I used in hard disk driver - there is CPU speed test at start, and it sets timing loop start values according to it - more with faster CPU, so timing will be closely same.
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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by exxos » Tue May 29, 2018 12:17 pm

I guess depends on instructions.. as if counting is done in RAM, then RAM still runs at 8MHz... Internal instructions and ROM only things which run faster.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by Petari » Tue May 29, 2018 12:31 pm

Surely. I'm trying to determine is it worth at all to care about it, for accelerators which are for ST, STE, and which will not go over 32 MHz. I guess that initial timing was pretty generous, and can tolerate much faster CPU.
So, the question is: were there any noticeable floppy access problems when accelerators were set on maximum speed with TOS 1.62 and 1.04 ?
Basically, any problems with with file accessing ?
There is 2 kind of people: one thinking about moving to Mars after here becomes too bad, the others thinking about how to keep this planet habitable.

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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by exxos » Tue May 29, 2018 12:48 pm

Not seen any problems on STE with 32Mhz. I guess a test program would be best to test if any timings change.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

Petari
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Re: TOS105 ROM

Post by Petari » Tue May 29, 2018 1:03 pm

You can not test with some program internal timings of TOS rutines. It is rather possible with examining disassembled code, calculating cycle time - then can see what is time out with given cycle count, and is it OK for normal floppy work. But I guess that testing real work is best test.
I tried in Steem set to 128 MHz, with all possible floppy modes, machine speed set to 1000% , and no problems with floppy. But emulation is not perfect, and floppy timing is in many cases independent from settings of CPU and machine speed. Sadly, timing of Pasti is not much good too.
Anyway, i think that we don't need to care about floppy problems for now. Especially because there must be not floppy :D
There is 2 kind of people: one thinking about moving to Mars after here becomes too bad, the others thinking about how to keep this planet habitable.

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