TF360 Status

News & updates for the upcoming 68060 accelerator

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supaduper
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Re: TF360 Status

Post by supaduper » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:16 pm

As Alen noticed with the power Regulator, you can have it to suit what type you have or what you want to use, that`s some great smart thinking Steve, and as we know options are good !

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Re: TF360 Status

Post by terriblefire » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:19 pm

richx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:57 pm
Can't wait to play with this! With the similarities between the CD32 and A1200, I think it was mentioned that someone else is working on an A1200 version? Any chance it will be released around when the TF360 is?
Edu Arana is working on the TF330 port to the A1200.. There is nobody as yet working on the A1200 version of this.
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Re: TF360 Status

Post by terriblefire » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:34 pm

supaduper wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:16 pm
As Alen noticed with the power Regulator, you can have it to suit what type you have or what you want to use, that`s some great smart thinking Steve, and as we know options are good !
In this case its future proofing it against a particular pinout. i was tiding up that area and noticed i could do that.
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Re: TF360 Status

Post by terriblefire » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:53 pm

TF360 Rev 1 is on order.
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Re: TF360 Status

Post by alenppc » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:54 pm

I changed the caps according to recommendations. My conclusion is that 060 CPUs are a lot less overclocking prone than people believe. None of my CPUs will do 75mhz, but rev6 will do 66 mhz. None of what Chucky calls "rev5" nor the rev1s will do 66 for me.

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Re: TF360 Status

Post by terriblefire » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:03 pm

alenppc wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:54 pm
I changed the caps according to recommendations. My conclusion is that 060 CPUs are a lot less overclocking prone than people believe. None of my CPUs will do 75mhz, but rev6 will do 66 mhz. None of what Chucky calls "rev5" nor the rev1s will do 66 for me.
Some of that is the Rev 0 TF360. It was never designed for this really. It was a bus adaptor prototype. Also some of that may be your PSU. I sat with a friend and did some maths about the caps for the rev 1. I am going to recommend 10nF X7Rs on the 0603 pads all round the CPU and 1uF X7Rs on the 1206 pads under the CPU. We think this should get the edges down to 1.5ns which is whats needed.

Also check the 3.3V rail and make sure its not below 3.1.

Finally have you cleaned off all the flux on the pin shoulders? They're basically short circuits at 75Mhz.
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Re: TF360 Status

Post by alenppc » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:59 pm

terriblefire wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:03 pm

I am going to recommend 10nF X7Rs on the 0603 pads all round the CPU and 1uF X7Rs on the 1206 pads under the CPU. We think this should get the edges down to 1.5ns which is whats needed.
What are the counterindications if one uses bigger caps than necessary? Just asking out of philosophical curiosity since I don't know that much about electronics theory.
terriblefire wrote:
Finally have you cleaned off all the flux on the pin shoulders? They're basically short circuits at 75Mhz.
I did not but I always assumed it was non-conductive.

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Re: TF360 Status

Post by Higgy » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:37 pm

I was reading about flux today (I should get out more!) and one type which was talked about certainly said it was conductive.

Regarding overclocking I would like to think it is more the Rev 0 board than the chips. I suppose if not done already, is to use WhichAmiga to read the Rev version. Although our Chinese friends are good at removing a thin top layer off the CPU and reprinting the mask ID they can't hope to change the internally read ID .
With all the Blizzard and Apollo 100Mhz upgrades there just seems talk about using Rev 5/6. I have not come across comments where people have used a Rev 6 and it still won't do 100Mhz, so I like to think it is more board (or PSU related).
The Warp1260 card has hard soldered 060 to the board, so they are asking people to send in their CPU's for testing. If their CPU's won't do 100Mhz then they can supply one that works. I guess this is mainly to test the Chinese reprinted one's pretending to be Rev 6's.

When did the Chinese find out it was valuable to re-print mask ID's! I mean no commercial hardware 'overclocks' so are they just doing it because of retro computer accelerator cards?- can't be. I mean a standard Motorola/Freescale 060's all run at least 50Mhz.
Genuine Motorola/Freescale 060's have at least 2-3 different types of print on the CPU's. For example the mark on the top left, the ink is raised. The vertical print which has date code looks laser etched, which would make sense - mask ID is set, but production dates/batches change so you want a quick way of marking chips through the production line.
The reprints all use the same type of ink. The printing is flat.

(sorry, slightly off topic, please delete if not appropriate)

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Re: TF360 Status

Post by terriblefire » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:32 pm

alenppc wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:59 pm
What are the counterindications if one uses bigger caps than necessary? Just asking out of philosophical curiosity since I don't know that much about electronics theory.
The faster things get the more rapidly a transition from 0 to 3.3v or vice versa needs to happen. To do that you need power fast.

The speed at which power can flow out of a capacitor is governed by something called a time constant which is the Resistance x Capacitance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC_time_constant

The bigger that number the slower the response of your output as shown. However the smaller the caps the less charge it can provide... so its a balancing act. I know i have talked about caps not being important before but as we push past 50Mhz they're really important.

The parasitic capacitance of the 060's pins is 20pF. So we're limited before we start.
I did not but I always assumed it was non-conductive.
Things behave differently with different frequencies.. I dont know specifically the frequency response of the flux i have but as a rule of thumb the faster I go the more of an effect I assume it will have.
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Re: TF360 Status

Post by alenppc » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:52 pm

Perfect explanation, thank you. I assume the 060 socket also adds a fraction of resistance.

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