REV 3 - REV 5 - The beginning (ST536)

All about the ST536 030 ST booster.
Steve
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by Steve »

I noticed on the tf536 ST page it says 'project shelved due to lack of interest'. I was just wondering how 'interest' was being measured?
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exxos
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by exxos »

Steve wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:42 pm I noticed on the tf536 ST page it says 'project shelved due to lack of interest'. I was just wondering how 'interest' was being measured?
Took months just for 2 to sell.

But it's pretty much the norm in Atari land. It's like a lot of things, I'm not going to plug hundreds of hours into something which basically "nobody" wants. I think this is the fourth or fifth re-spin of the board where I got 30 at least made each time. Not only has it cost rather a lot in f-kups, a lot of time went into redoing the firmware to run differently than the original. So the projection is, I am just better abandoning the project then keep plugging away at it for no reason. I have somewhere around 20 easier projects still outstanding needing my attention. It is the same with a lot of projects. Anything which sells like 5 or less of in a year, is getting onto sticky grounds of just not worth bothering with.
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Steve
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by Steve »

Ok ok... I understand but I wouldn't mix up dev board sales with predicted interest in the final product, is all.
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by Steve »

I just thought of the perfect analogy: @Badwolf 's Falcon accelerator. We all know everyone is interested in it, and would all invest in a finished product, but could he sell his last revision? No :) (or barely) but like, he shouldn't be disheartened by that and neither should you. That is my point :)
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PhilC
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by PhilC »

@Steve It's a difficult one Steve, I had about 30 blank TF536 rev 2b boards initially and even now have 8 left unassembled and that includes the few that I've made for myself as well (say 4 of them). So there isn't a huge demand for Atari TF536.

That said, the rev 3 works really well (at least for me with an IMP DMA) but unless someone else is able to take on the development I think it won't go any further. In the end, there really isn't much demand for an Atari TF536.
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exxos
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by exxos »

Steve wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:44 pm I just thought of the perfect analogy: @Badwolf 's Falcon accelerator. We all know everyone is interested in it, and would all invest in a finished product, but could he sell his last revision? No :) (or barely) but like, he shouldn't be disheartened by that and neither should you. That is my point :)
I do see your point @Steve . But if you read the entire thread and see very strange issues with TOS206 and the -38 DMA, which would take many hours to debug, but likely is a problem within TOS206 itself. This was supposed to be corrected with MAPROM been able to emulate TOS206 space etc then there is issues with the blitter.. Both of this software was developed by @agranlund Who may or may not be back any time soon. I don't have the time or the motivation to sit down start learning assembly and the ins and outs of TOS and the 030 MMU operations etc. It is a phenomenal amount of work.

Realistically,EMUTOS will probably work fine running from fast-ram anyway. But I have not done much testing in that respect. I doubt anyone else will step up to troubleshoot the software side of things either.So the only thing not developed is IDE basically. But this may be actually be somewhat pointless as Trudie is being developed for the IDE interface and working on it on the TF536 is basically a step backwards. ​As far as things go, is pretty much *is* the final board as I cannot really do anything else with it hardware wise.

Boosters generally don't sell well, I know that much. It's why I am not in any hurry to finish the SEC booster which has been in the pipeline for many years now. Like I say, nothing in particular sells well in Atari land, but boosters are indeed one of the worst things for interest / sales and soak up the most amount of time. Things are escalated as well because they are " self-assembly" which is not easy and practically nobody can do it either... Might as well throw in parts shortages where people cannot get the parts anyway.

In the case of @Badwolf It is a personal project for him. I really like the idea myself. I would prefer to have a boosted 030 than a CT60 bodged in my falcon. I'm sure he's busy like the rest of us, but I doubt he's trying to run a web store and designing and trying to coordinate 100's of projects all at once like I am doing constantly. I mean sure, if I had no other projects on the go, I probably would spend a lot of time on the thing. Time is just better spent on power supplies, general stock items, decoder boards, memory expansions etc etc at the end of the day it helps out a lot more people than just spending hundreds of hours on something the which will likely never sell. I really just messed with the TF536 as a personal project and did not really expect there to be much interest in it from the start. But there are a lot more interesting projects to be getting on with.

Also don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is "the end". I may pick it up again further down the line even just for my own personal interests, but meanwhile, I just have countless other things which need to get done. Like I need to get on board with @Icky With the FPGA MMU cores etc, time is much better spent on that, because at the end of the day, if those chipsets are reworked and can run faster, it pretty much makes boosters obsolete anyway. So why really spend lots of time on something which has no interest when there is already something a lot better in the pipeline.

It is also the reason why I dropped the 16MHz project which many people protested against. But like I said, it also had issues which could not easily be solved, and spending hundreds of hours trying to bodge it up, what is the point because it is a dead-end road when you cannot scale up to 32Mhz anyway.

Even if this project does eventually vanish, people can still obtain the original TF536 rev2 and flash with the Atari firmware. It is of course not exactly the same, but if people really want to experiment with a 030 and fast ram, it's still a very good solution and the Amiga guys are still building TF536's up AFAIK.
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
Steve
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by Steve »

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I see what you mean.
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sporniket
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by sporniket »

I totally understand, with finite ressources, one has to choose wisely the battles to engage.
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JezC
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by JezC »

@exxos I've held off buying at least a couple of these boards because I can't get the faster Xilinx CPLDs until next year (but I could get the slower ones for the vanilla TF536 and RAM in October)...definitely wanting to get the ST version though (and have the IMP DMAs for all 4x H4/H5 boards to cover that base re compatibility).

I currently have one TF536 (assembled by PhilC - thanks again mate!) ready to go & another to be built waiting on the parts coming back in stock :(
Whether they stay in the STs or move to the Amigas (when I fix them.. :roll: ) will depend on the cost & free time

I can't deny how the limited sales for the ST market make it difficult to justify the development effort but most (if not all) of us do appreciate all the efforts put into the various developments (especially with the RSI further hampering your progress).

Similarly, I'll happily support that Falcon accelerator by @Badwolf if/when it is available...

Just wish I had more money and/or time to help support all the developments present & future! I need a lottery win I guess...

Anyway, please all keep up the good work as long as you enjoy it & rest assured there are many grateful forum members for all you've already done for our humble machines!

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WDB
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by WDB »

I just bought two, didn't read the whole thread but hesitated in the past because I thought it wasn't a finished product yet. I probably would have bought a fully assembled one if I knew someone selling them. The H5 remake board is a lot easier to add an accelerator to, I imagine some people are not to keen on desoldering a CPU on a Atari, with an Amiga it is much easier as the 500 and 2000 have a socketed CPU
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