STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Help & information about the STE V1 booster.
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by rubber_jonnie » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:41 am

exxos wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:31 am

:thumbup:

New boards are going to be red, so if you have colour OCD, you will have to get a red dualtos board ;)
Nope, no OCD from my PoV, as long as it works I'm happy :)
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ape Warp mod, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg) + Gotek, 1040STFM + Vortex ATOnce + Gotek, 1040STF long button floppy, 4160 STE with Gotek and ROM switcher, 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher and CosmosEx, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
Amiga stuff, Mac stuff, Sinclair stuff etc...
www.electronicnothingness.co.uk

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Posts: 3503
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by exxos » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:16 pm

So running 2 days now, it decided to die again.. which mirrors the same thing as I talked about earlier viewtopic.php?f=24&t=46&start=80#p6446

I think not all CPU's can run at 40MHz.. Oddly this CPU started working for a short time, then died again. Its not working in 8MHz mode either. Really need to get some freezer spray :roll:

So in light of this, I will likely build up a new board with something like 35MHz osc and see how things go then. Obviously its not good to keep running at 40MHz if its killing some CPU's.

EDIT:

re-soldered the PCB just to make sure still same issue.. Heatguned the CPU off the board and works in the STE now :WTF: Maybe the heat made the CPU work again :shrug: So will see if I can solder this CPU back on the PCB...
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Posts: 3503
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by exxos » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:51 pm

I took out the GAL and all the resistors and basically hardwired the CPU in as a stock setup, and it still does not work..

So I am back to thinking this is sort of bad connection fault again.. Though I do not like getting into these "going around in circles" problems. I guess it is possible these PCBs are simply rubbish..

I got my regular PCB guy to manufacture the final boards anyway. So of course I will do a lot of testing with those. Likely I will have 2 machines running, one with a 40MHz OSC, and another with a 32MHz OSC. And see if the 40MHz one dies or not.

I am still investigating, this seems a bit of a mystery :roll:

IMG_3042.JPG
IMG_3042.JPG (114.71 KiB) Viewed 262 times

EDIT:

Checked bottom of the motherboard to the top of the booster CPU, all connections are fine. So there is nothing other than the CPU in circuit, direct connection as "normal" just doesn't work.

I took the CPU off the booster , back in the MB... works again.. So I will try a new CPU on the booster board.. This really doesn't make any sense...

EDIT2:

OK So I plugged the booster board directly ontop of the CPU in the MB socket.. now it doesn't boot.. hmmm.. there are no shorts on the board from what I can see.. even if there was, doesn't explain 10+ hours before it failed...

EDIT3:

OK so short on PCB between DTACK and BG , must have happened during my last re-solder.. So back on with the CPU again...and.. still doesn't work.. bizzare..

EDIT4:

Tried the suspect CPU in my old V1 booster (32mhz) and CPU came right on.. so can't be the CPU... all connections on the new booster board seem fine.. so what else is there ??

EDIT5:

Put a new CPU on the problem booster board and now it boots! So why does that one CPU work in the MB, work in the V1 booster, but died on the new booster boards.. Even though at the moment its hardwired for 8MHz.. No bad connections, no shorts, just refuse to work..


EDIT6:

So back to working at 40MHz now.. well bit unstable as not got the sil arrays in yet.. and its died again... :pullhair:


EDIT7:

Tried a previous revision board and hardwired that to 8mhz and seems to exhibit the same "fault".

I really think there is something bad on these test boards.. but I don't know what.. Will just have to wait until I get my proper boards and do more tests on those..

EDIT8:

So I found a short on the CPU :roll: So now its running at 40MHz again (though with a different CPU than originally). Though it still doesn't explain why it died earlier when the CPU tested fine in another board.

Think I am just going to put this down to its solar eclipse & Friday 13th.. Good enough explanation as any other...
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Posts: 3503
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by exxos » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:53 pm

Had a thought to check the CPU I was having issues under my microscope.. And look what I found..

Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (158 KiB) Viewed 207 times

Basically two pins have not had any solder on them. I don't know why as each pad on the PCB had paste, and I even checked under a magnifier that each pin was sitting in paste.. But the some reason paste did not adhere to the 2 CPU pins, even despite three or four re-solders. This also explains why it worked fine with a totally different CPU (I did not even re-apply any paste on this, just heat gunned the new CPU, so it was not a issue of not enough paste on the PCB).

As to why this worked for several hours without problems then suddenly died, and even past continuity checks is bit odd. Probably there was a few ohms resistance which made it seem okay with my meter, but when running at some MHZ , likely the resistance basically became open circuit. Basically similar kind of issues with bad contacts in PLCC sockets which I saw a lot of also.

So what I will do in future is leave the CPUs soaking in some IPA before I solder them, and of course never assume that CPUs are clean, even on "new" reels. I guess age could be a factor here.. But there does not seem to be any tarnishing on the pins and they look clean. The pins are straight and aligned with the ones next to it. So just something seriously odd where the solder simply would not stick to the two pins :roll:
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

Forgottenmyname
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:22 pm

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by Forgottenmyname » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:26 pm

Well spotted.

Not sure why it would happen but can only assume oxydisation on the pin over the years, not that we can see it on the photo.

Could it be that the cpu and pcb flexed under the sudden application of heat? Reading the instructions on the paste I use talks about raising the temperature in a set procedure.... Not that I ever do? Maybe it would solder better in an oven? Just put it under the pizza not on top.

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Posts: 3503
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by exxos » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:30 pm

Forgottenmyname wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:26 pm
Not sure why it would happen but can only assume oxydisation on the pin over the years, not that we can see it on the photo.

Does not appear to be any tarnishing or oxidisation from what I can see.
Forgottenmyname wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:26 pm
Could it be that the cpu and pcb flexed under the sudden application of heat? Reading the instructions on the paste I use talks about raising the temperature in a set procedure....
It was soldered in a oven originally.. Of course bad joints can happen if the PCB and the solder melts and the CPU pin isn't up to temperature and it does not stick.. But the whole thing is heated up equally so that should not happen.. Even so, I heat gunned this board taking the CPU off and on, and the pins resisted the re-soldering each time.. And I even plastered lots of flux over everything each time. So it's not soldering this amount of times is nearly impossible.. The only thing it could be as if the pins were bent such a way solder did not touch the pins.. But all the pins seem level to me..
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Posts: 3503
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by exxos » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:47 am

So the current booster was running a couple of hours then died again :roll: I fluxed the board up and re-heated twice and it made no difference. The third time I heated it up , and pushed down on the CPU for a couple of minutes until it had cooled, and now it works!

So what I am going to do is see if I can get a thicker stencil made to get more solder on the pins. I will also see if I can paste up the pins directly on the CPU and get some solder on them before actually soldering it to the PCB. At least that way I can make sure solder is adhering to the CPU pins before actually soldering it to the PCB.

.. And here's me thinking that PLCC sockets were evil and the pain ass... :lol: :roll:
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Posts: 3503
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by exxos » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:12 pm

What I will try today is pre-soldering the CPU pins on the PCB as shown below.. Then I will paste the whole board and assemble.. This way the CPU pins have double the amount of solder on them..

pre-paste.jpg
pre-paste.jpg (204.89 KiB) Viewed 170 times
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

troed
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:27 pm

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by troed » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:43 pm

(The next update will be from Chris swearing over hard to find connections between pins ;))

User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Posts: 3503
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: STE V1.5 32MHz BOOSTER - STATUS

Post by exxos » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:44 pm

troed wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:43 pm
(The next update will be from Chris swearing over hard to find connections between pins ;))
Most probably 8-)
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - 4MB STE 32MHz - STFM 16MHz - STM - MEGA ST - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - HxC - CosmosEx - Ultrasatan - various clutter

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.

Post Reply