Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Must have 3rd party solutions.
Petari
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Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by Petari » Thu May 31, 2018 11:46 am

I had here only USB HxC, some years ago, and it was not mine, just got it for some testing, SW development.
Of course, version(s) with SD cards are more spread. USB was better for Pasti (STX) image files, but it's not what I want to talk here about.

The question is: is there some possibility to use larger images, for instance 1.44 MB, so basically HD floppy images on Ataris without HD floppy capability ?
So, some ST, STE without HD upgrade.
I asking it, because it should be possible technically, since there are no physical restriction like by real disks. Loading of 1 track will take more time, but that matters not. FDC chip is ready for even more than 20 sectors/track, and in this case transfer speed is same.
If you are not sure, please do test by putting there some larger image (1.44 or 1.6 MB ST img.) with ST(E) SW on it. I can post such, if that's the problem.
There is 2 kind of people: one thinking about moving to Mars after here becomes too bad, the others thinking about how to keep this planet habitable.

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rubber_jonnie
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Re: Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by rubber_jonnie » Thu May 31, 2018 2:11 pm

Please post a suitable image and I will try.

However, I would have thought that it would face the same issues around timings etc that normal 1.44MB floppy drives have, since it is trying to then emulate a 1.44Mb drive, and I expect you'd still need to use a solution like the adapter by exxos for 1.44MB drives.
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ape Warp mod, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg) + Gotek, 1040STFM + Vortex ATOnce + Gotek, 1040STF long button floppy, 4160 STE with Gotek and ROM switcher, 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher and CosmosEx, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
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Re: Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by Petari » Thu May 31, 2018 2:50 pm

Here is the image:
HD36.ZIP
(1.27 MiB) Downloaded 18 times
This image is related with my SW, what I just presented today here: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=858
There are couple games using that RAM disk system.

Now, about timings - there are diverse timings involved in floppy access. Most important is clock of FDC chip, what is tied with density of data on disk.
And density is tied with needed data amount per track + dimensions. The whole thing is that we don't need higher clock of FDC chip, since there is no density - it can work at same clock rate, and act like accessing some 2x larger floppy disk (with half rotation speed). Reading time of 1 sector is same. What could make problem is needed time for index pulse - what would be 2x in case of 2x larger floppy disk. But there is no such, and Gotek can give index pulse in very short time, actually much shorter than in case of DD disk. It's all on FW.
There is 2 kind of people: one thinking about moving to Mars after here becomes too bad, the others thinking about how to keep this planet habitable.

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Re: Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by rubber_jonnie » Thu May 31, 2018 4:21 pm

Cool, thanks, I will try and get back to you.

Also now wondering if it'll work on an emulator?
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ape Warp mod, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg) + Gotek, 1040STFM + Vortex ATOnce + Gotek, 1040STF long button floppy, 4160 STE with Gotek and ROM switcher, 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher and CosmosEx, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
Amiga stuff, Mac stuff, Sinclair stuff etc...
www.electronicnothingness.co.uk

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Re: Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by rubber_jonnie » Thu May 31, 2018 4:24 pm

Hmm, seems to work on Steem SSE.

I'll see if I can try it later on a real STE.
Collector of old Atari things:
800XL + Ape Warp mod, 2x 1010 cassette, 1050 + Happy mod, 65XE (128k) & XC12, SIO2SD, 2600jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Atari 520ST (1Meg) + Gotek, 1040STFM + Vortex ATOnce + Gotek, 1040STF long button floppy, 4160 STE with Gotek and ROM switcher, 4160STE with 32Mhz booster, ROM switcher and CosmosEx, not to mention various bare ST boards for testing including a PAK 68/2 :)
Plus the rest..
Amiga stuff, Mac stuff, Sinclair stuff etc...
www.electronicnothingness.co.uk

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Re: Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by stephen_usher » Thu May 31, 2018 5:55 pm

Isn't there an open source, and better, firmware for this hardware available?
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ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

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Re: Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by Atarian Computing » Thu May 31, 2018 6:17 pm

stephen_usher wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 5:55 pm
Isn't there an open source, and better, firmware for this hardware available?
FlashFloppy I believe: https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy/wiki/Downloads

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Re: Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by Petari » Thu May 31, 2018 9:13 pm

This was simple question. I don't want to be developer of firmware. And don't have time for everything.
When someone understands how floppy controller works, he can do it, I'm sure.
I can try to contact Jeff, if this works not already.

And: sure it works on Steem SSE, as works on Steem 3.2, or on Hatari. We talk about real HW work.
Ah, and if you want that work not in Steem, try with Pasti on :D
There is 2 kind of people: one thinking about moving to Mars after here becomes too bad, the others thinking about how to keep this planet habitable.

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Re: Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by troed » Thu May 31, 2018 9:23 pm

Yes it's possible to use very large floppy images with HxC. I'm not sure they're compatible with some existing format though.

http://torlus.com/floppy/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1322

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Re: Some questions about Gotek and HxC

Post by Petari » Thu May 31, 2018 9:34 pm

That thread is with posts about larger track numbers than usual ones, bot nothing about more sectors/track than usual, while staying at DD mode.
Still in darkness. Although, at Atariage there is test result that it works not on Gotek. So, we need test on HxC .
There is 2 kind of people: one thinking about moving to Mars after here becomes too bad, the others thinking about how to keep this planet habitable.

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